The Midwest's Decision to Withhold

re: " The age of narcissism within the OCA is coming to an end, hopefully."

One can hope that this Age of Narcissism is ending for the hierarchs and clergy of the OCA due to the troubles that they have brought upon themselves, but the spirit of this Age is only gaining strength amongst the laity.

Re: “... and don't give me the theological theory here... I don't buy the idea that we can live like hell and still make that claim” and the “lost lambs”

Of course, by “we” you mean ourselves: you and me, right? Surely, we can’t lay all of the sins of the OCA jurisdiction within the Orthodox Church on the bishops and presbyters.

Since you don’t like “theological theory, you might find this bit of political theory applicable to the situation in the OCA: “You get the leaders that you deserve.”

The way that this scandal has played out on this website and in my home parish has been a revelation.

A question that should be on the minds of every participant on forums such as this one: If our brothers and sisters can so casually bandy about the alleged sins of the hierarchs, casting judgements to and fro, can we expect a sudden stab of conscience, sober discretion, love and forgiveness (seventy times seven) from them if they come to know our own personal sins?

No, of course not.

We learn to avoid such people if we can, for their sakes and for the sake of our own salvation, and so some sheep wander away from the OCA onto greener pastures for purely practical reasons.

We need to make a distinction between these sheep and the ones that the Holy Apostle St. John the Theologian wrote about:
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” (1 John 2:19)

I’m sure there are stories to tell of people leaving not just the OCA but the Orthodox Church on the account of the scandals. Sadly, this overreaction is symptomatic of a deeper loss of faith than can be laid at the feet of the hierarchs.

People leave the Orthodox Church, the one true Church, for many reasons like the ususal suspects of heresy, apostasy, schism, but this scandal highlights another reason: unforgiveness.

Whatever the reasons, leaving is still leaving and the tragedy is that those who leave can no longer be a part of the ongoing life of the Church, a life that has always included sin and repentance, love and forgiveness.

If we are to thank God for all things, then we must thank God for allowing these scandals to come to light in order to reveal what was hidden in our own hearts. There, if we look closely enough we will find our own need for reform, accountability, new leadership and repentance.

Re: "An embarrasing circumstance"

Another one.

I have been truly embarrassed by the argument put forth by many on this forum that the coin of the realm of the OCA is... well, "coin." Not love. Not holiness. Not Life in Christ, but coin. We are being told that the way to fix the OCA is to use mammon as an inducement (enticement or as a lash) for the hierarchs to do the right thing(s).

Let's say for the sake of argument, that this scheme succeeds. What will be left of the OCA? Intstead of a Church we will have a coin-operated machine.

Who wants to be a part of that?

Find a Church (jurisdiction) that doesnt have such a problem! Sooner or later, the veil falls away and exposes the reality that people screw up no matter where we find them. But, that doesn't make the Church any less the Church; nor, thus, the Eucharist any less the Eucharist. Its not like this is new in the history of the Church. Its just the current manifestation of the human nature of the Church; but the spiritual nature and reality is nonetheless real, also. If this scandal pushes you away from one jurisdiction to another, then you are at risk, maybe, of deluding yourself; because that jurisdiction will be a mess as well, also, sooner or later. Just go to your current parish, receive Communion, sing along with the Liturgy's hymns, make it to vespers now and then, join the coffee hour afterwards and be part of the community, and get together on occassion in non-church activities with some fellow parishioners for socializing and support, and invite a non-Orthodox to join you once in a while, and then your own little square yard of Earth which you occupy at any given moment will become better, and you will probably feel better, as a bonus.

Right on, Rebecca! I meant to limit my thoughts, though, to the notion that leaving the Church because its full of mooks (self included, no doubt) is not the answer. (Too many have voiced the idea, as though its a sensible one.) Focus on one's own square yard of turf and one will begin to approach peace; from peace, one will better be able to contribute in whatever way one is called to do so to this mess ... which may or may not involve varying degrees of "activism" with respect to our marquis scandals. It may just be: that by being that undisturbed, peaceful soul, one is able to inspire other individuals to stay who would otherwise have left, or to attract new converts despite the garbage that others are more activly confronting; and that those individuals and converts, so inspired by the sober but less activist soul, may turn out to be the wonderworkers in this thing. Etc etc. But in any event, all we can focus on is this moment, in this place: there is no future; there is no past; there is only here and now--its all any of us have.

Re: "If this scandal pushes you away from one jurisdiction to another, then you are at risk, maybe, of deluding yourself; because that jurisdiction will be a mess as well, also, sooner or later."

Maybe.

It's not just "this scandal." The OCA is collapsing under the weight of its own pretensions. The OCA is rocking itself to pieces. First, the violence of hierarchal ineptitude and then the pendulum swing of lay self-righteousness, back and forth, back and forth...Money is found to be the root of the evils of the OCA, and lo, money it is also the solution to all of its problems!

Not everyone is being "pushed out." If anything, prayers are being answered and people are being led by the Holy Spirit out of this shambles and into places where there are true expressions of Orthodoxy in contrast to the "truly American expression of Orthodoxy" that we are seeing now in the OCA.

Fair enough, except that the OCA, qua OCA, is not collapsing under the weight of its own pretensions, inasmuch as, ultimately, only individuals can have pretensions (by which, I presume you mean "a claim or an effort to establish a claim" (there being several definitions for this word). I would also assume (not unreasonably, though perhaps still incorrectly?) that you would disagree with the claims you believe individuals within the OCA have made/are making -- which in this case would presumably be claims with respect to the OCA's position (or desire to be positioned) as the catalyst or foundation for a united domestic Orthodoxy.

Perhaps, then, it would be better to say instead that such pretensions as these as have been adopted by, and especially as have been voiced by, its past and present leaders are themselves being crushed -- vitiated -- by particular moral failures of certain leaders within the OCA and the quiet acquiescence of others in the OCA, both leaders and just plain 'folks' (me included, I'm sure).

But, I know a number of clergy (OCA and other jurisdictions) and from candid discussions with them, and from a general appreciation of human nature, I am fairly confident that it would be no surprise if the next headlines of gross clerical misconduct (of whatever nature) pertained to any of the other jurisdictions, or again to the OCA. But, like the OCA, this would seem to have less to do with pretense (in the sense noted above), but instead with the Church not functioning eschatologically ... that is, not living with the transparency that (so I understand the Teaching to be, anyway) is endemic to living as though the Kingdom had, in fact, already come.

Or maybe not. But that's the way I see it at this point in my unremarkable life. I have no credentials on any of these subjects, and I have no exemplary moral victories in my life, so ultimately your and others' ideas are at least as worth considering (probably more) as these as we slog our way through this morass together.

Re: "...ultimately, only individuals can have pretensions (by which, I presume you mean "a claim or an effort to establish a claim" (there being several definitions for this word)."

By pretension, I mean: "an allegation of doubtful value - pretext, a purpose or motive alleged or an appearance assumed in order to cloak the real intention or state of affairs."

Pretensions: A 20,000 membership that can morph into numbers in the hundreds of thousands and up to 1.1 million depending on who the OCA wants to impress. Chest-beating about "Autocephaly" and its "mission" to unite all of the Orthodox in the United States, when said autocephaly is effectively ignored by all the Patriarchates (including Moscow) and the Autonomous Churches. The OCA's fear and loathing of the reunited Russian Orthodox Church because it (rightly) fears that its claim to St. Herman and the original Russian missions in Alaska are about to be challenged...Need I go on?

Nah. You've made yourself pretty clear, I reckon.

Lest anyone think that leaving the OCA is just indicative of a case of nervous "jurisdiction jumping", I'd like to share a quote from filmmaker Emir Kusturica (Bosnian, a former Muslim who converted to Orthodox Christianity):

"I've reached the 50th year of my life, and now every question related with life also includes thinking about death. When I leave, I want to leave my offspring a clear idea about identity."

By "identity" Kusturica was referring to being an Orthodox Christian. Having reached a similar milestone in my life, I too think of death and how much time I might have to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. I've got children too.

Bottom line, the OCA, in its pursuit of an American identity, is losing (has already lost?) its coherence as an Orthodox Church body. Can I leave this sort of incoherent identity to my own offspring? The answer is simply, no.

Dear Father,
I'm fearful of the brothers and sisters that we are losing each and everyday as this madness continues.
I'm Embarrassed that in 2001 we The Church collected appeals money to help with the victims of 911 and they just received the check of 90,000 just in the last 2 weeks. As I read the paragraph about the priests giving the money over and saying how our church was instrumental in collecting for them, I cried. How could anyone in their right minds say such a thing, Aren't they embarrassed behond words! I am so appalled....You and I gave to 911... the money was stollen, now we have a bank that loans sysosset money to replace it, and were going to pay again.
This is for the Good of The Church.... The money is not the real issue, yes stop the funding in all areas to sysosset the real crime is of Faith, faith that I had trust in my leaders and Truth, truth that is so deeply rooted back to Metropolitian Theodeous with the manipulation.
Why can't we as a Church simply say to each other brothers and sisters we made some terrible mistakes, mistakes so far behond money, its words and deeds and sexual embarrassments its against the commandments so on and so forth why can't we just come clean of the heavy burdens of these human faults that are in every person and ask for repentence, forgiveness.
To begin the new for the Good of the Church.... Why can't we just do it ?..... In all honesty I am not worthy to recite and pray the prayer that God gave to each and everyone of us, To forgive those who tresspass against us... This is only valid if I forgive them and they forgive me as the Father forgives each of us and blesses us in his holy name. I hope and Pray today that we can somehow get to this point in this madness.... We can no longer afford to lose one more human being to another faith, we can no longer afford to pay for these lawyers, and we can no longer afford the embarrassment to God to use his name for our own purpose and self righteousness. The madness needs to be exposed!! For the Good of The Church and All Mankind... Love Irene

Dear Patty,

I do not know what the proprietary nature of a PR or Lambridies work product would be if they are not paid and sued. Short of suing, it is conceivable that Lambrides would not hand over a concluded audit, for example.

As for PR it seems that there was no written work product since information sharing of a conclusive nature was done orally only to those approved by Herman and Kucynda. Copies of bills, credit card statements and checks were copied and provided to MC members and the Holy Synod, but said copies were collected up by Kucynda with great scrupulosity as if they were greater than Holy Writ. Such attention I think demonstrates that PR gave strict orders that no work product be made public.

Would PR sue the OCA? Maybe, but worse they would not like to spend billable hours in being dragged into a lawsuit filed against the OCA by someone objecting to their report being made public. One can see that PR would be irked especially not being paid in full for their services.

This is very thin ice that Herman and Kucynda are now navigating but with the lack of funds they are working with they may make the big mistake that many are waiting for so that Herman and Kucynda can finally be swept out. Added to this, Fr Thomas Hopko recently wrote personal letters to both of them asking them to step down.

Time will tell.