Thursday, May 27. 2010
+Philip Challenges Assembly
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Do they really think that they can move forward and make changes without the OCA? I don't think so.
(Editor's note: The OCA is present - albeit at the end of the long, long table. What is lacking is the OCA's ability to influence the direction or content of the meetings, except peripherally. )
(Editor's note: The OCA is present - albeit at the end of the long, long table. What is lacking is the OCA's ability to influence the direction or content of the meetings, except peripherally. )
I am refering to the Executive Committee in which it looks like the OCA will not be member not having a voice or vote.
There is nothing excluding the OCA bishops from any committee nor is there any exclusion of the OCA bishops from being chairmen of a committee. The fight was over the OCA being on the Executive Committee.
Mark, the bishops were seated in the order of the dyptichs. So, regardless of one's position on the OCA's autocephaly, they were seated in the right place.
(Editor's notes: Constantinople's dyptchs, not anybody else's. But the discussion is meaningless, as are the dyptichs. No one in the world cares who sits where, or who or what is autocephalous, except a handful of men. Nor does our Lord, for as he pointed out, the last shall be first, etc; and no one is autocephalous in heaven.)
(Editor's notes: Constantinople's dyptchs, not anybody else's. But the discussion is meaningless, as are the dyptichs. No one in the world cares who sits where, or who or what is autocephalous, except a handful of men. Nor does our Lord, for as he pointed out, the last shall be first, etc; and no one is autocephalous in heaven.)
Dear Anonymous,
To answer your question, unfortunately I do believe that Orthodoxy in America can move towards unity without including the OCA. Maybe I'm reading too much into the tone of your post, but it appears to have the same arrogance as many, including some of the hierarchs, in the OCA.
When Metropolitan Herman finally stepped down I had a conversation with one of the active bishops in the OCA and suggested that now was the time to reach out to the Antiochian Archdiocese and try to move forward. His response to me was, "Well, we are the church with the autocephaly. They can come and join us." This type of thinking is getting the OCA nowhere and if it continues, the only thing the OCA will have is a bunch of old musty photographs and newspaper clippings of an event that happened years ago. God bless Metropolitan Jonah for showing some humility and staying at the table despite not being included in the executive committee. This is the only way that the OCA is going to remain relevant in world Orthodoxy, not waving around some stupid piece of paper called autocephaly like just won the latest powerball.
To answer your question, unfortunately I do believe that Orthodoxy in America can move towards unity without including the OCA. Maybe I'm reading too much into the tone of your post, but it appears to have the same arrogance as many, including some of the hierarchs, in the OCA.
When Metropolitan Herman finally stepped down I had a conversation with one of the active bishops in the OCA and suggested that now was the time to reach out to the Antiochian Archdiocese and try to move forward. His response to me was, "Well, we are the church with the autocephaly. They can come and join us." This type of thinking is getting the OCA nowhere and if it continues, the only thing the OCA will have is a bunch of old musty photographs and newspaper clippings of an event that happened years ago. God bless Metropolitan Jonah for showing some humility and staying at the table despite not being included in the executive committee. This is the only way that the OCA is going to remain relevant in world Orthodoxy, not waving around some stupid piece of paper called autocephaly like just won the latest powerball.
How is this assembly funded?
(Editor's note: The assembly is funded by private grants to the Archdiocese. According to Fr. Arey, the cost is roughly $1000 per head, for the 75 persons attending. If nothing emerges, it is unlikely such grants will be forthcoming for future meetings. It is most unlikely that any of the Churches have funds to pay for it, especially given the collapse of the Greek economic situation. )
(Editor's note: The assembly is funded by private grants to the Archdiocese. According to Fr. Arey, the cost is roughly $1000 per head, for the 75 persons attending. If nothing emerges, it is unlikely such grants will be forthcoming for future meetings. It is most unlikely that any of the Churches have funds to pay for it, especially given the collapse of the Greek economic situation. )
I must say that I have had my differences with Metropolitan PHILIP but his address was right on the money. The OCA should not sit by and allow this atrocity to take place on our own Canonical Territory. We must show that we mean it when we say we are Autocephalous. Unless the Bishops know something I don't they should walk out and hold their own Assembly and anyone who wants to join is welcome.
Many Years Master!! We thank God for Metropolitan PHILIP's inimitable leadership.
DOA pretty much as expected. Maybe if the move the site to Jordanville, locked them all in a room together on monastic fare and didn't let them out until they came up with a plan for a local synod after saying by-by to the 'mother' churches, then there would be a chance.
Dear Mark,
Thanks again for this information. I am truly surprised at the lack of coverage of this meeting in New York. It's amazing how little information is out there. I don't know if you attended the meetings or if someone else did, but I for one would be delighted to know more about it. Who else spoke? What discussion took place regarding ROCOR, for instance? Are they now a part of SCOBA? Was Metropolitan Jonah even present at the first day? He wasn't visible from the pictures that I could see and yet Metropolitan Hilarion was there. And then on the second day Metropolitan Jonah was there but there were no pictures of Metropolitan Hilarion. Was this deliberate? And why was the new bishop from the Moscow Patriarchate seated at the front table? Why should a vicar bishop with parishes in the United States (no offense, but with the autocephaly to the OCA, there shouldn't even be such things as parishes under the Moscow Patriarchate in America) be seated at the head table?
I for one would like to know more about the discussions that have taken place at this meeting. Sad doesn't even begin to describe the tragedy that it is "Orthodox disunity" in the United States. God bless Metropolitan Phillip for having the guts to challenge Istanbul. May the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the Advocate, guide our hierarchs to find some way towards unity in America.
(Editor's note: No, I am not present at the meeting. Metropolitan Jonah attended all sessions; it is a very long table and no photo can show all present during working sessions.
Archbishop Justinian (MP) was seated at the head table because, as head of the Russian Church delegation ( which includes both ROCOR and the MP parishes in Canada and the USA) he is a member of the Executive Committee. The Tomos of Autocephaly allows the MP to have parishes in the USA and Canada - just not to establish new ones. Of course the Tomos could not have foreseen the ending of the ROCOR- MP schism, but that is all for the good, no? There are several reports that the discussions at the Assembly are being recorded, and will be made available at some time in the future.)
Thanks again for this information. I am truly surprised at the lack of coverage of this meeting in New York. It's amazing how little information is out there. I don't know if you attended the meetings or if someone else did, but I for one would be delighted to know more about it. Who else spoke? What discussion took place regarding ROCOR, for instance? Are they now a part of SCOBA? Was Metropolitan Jonah even present at the first day? He wasn't visible from the pictures that I could see and yet Metropolitan Hilarion was there. And then on the second day Metropolitan Jonah was there but there were no pictures of Metropolitan Hilarion. Was this deliberate? And why was the new bishop from the Moscow Patriarchate seated at the front table? Why should a vicar bishop with parishes in the United States (no offense, but with the autocephaly to the OCA, there shouldn't even be such things as parishes under the Moscow Patriarchate in America) be seated at the head table?
I for one would like to know more about the discussions that have taken place at this meeting. Sad doesn't even begin to describe the tragedy that it is "Orthodox disunity" in the United States. God bless Metropolitan Phillip for having the guts to challenge Istanbul. May the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the Advocate, guide our hierarchs to find some way towards unity in America.
(Editor's note: No, I am not present at the meeting. Metropolitan Jonah attended all sessions; it is a very long table and no photo can show all present during working sessions.
Archbishop Justinian (MP) was seated at the head table because, as head of the Russian Church delegation ( which includes both ROCOR and the MP parishes in Canada and the USA) he is a member of the Executive Committee. The Tomos of Autocephaly allows the MP to have parishes in the USA and Canada - just not to establish new ones. Of course the Tomos could not have foreseen the ending of the ROCOR- MP schism, but that is all for the good, no? There are several reports that the discussions at the Assembly are being recorded, and will be made available at some time in the future.)
The photo I saw on the GOARCH Web site has Metropolitan Jonah and Metropolitan Hilarion standing next to each other.
This is puzzling. Who is the real Metropolitan Philip? The one who claimed that the Holy Synod of Antioch is the highest authority in the church or the one who now claims that Patriarch Ignatius follows Patriarch Bartholomew's lead even though neither understands the dynamics and needs of the North American people and church.
It can't be both ways.
Hopefully before it's too late, Metropolitan Philip will close ranks with all his brother diocesan bishops and with the OCA, resolutely declaring our need to be truly self-governing, leaving all the old world patriarchates to their own byzantine machinations.
It can't be both ways.
Hopefully before it's too late, Metropolitan Philip will close ranks with all his brother diocesan bishops and with the OCA, resolutely declaring our need to be truly self-governing, leaving all the old world patriarchates to their own byzantine machinations.
It is odd that +Philip would complain so loudly about foreign inhibition of American unity and yet not make the obvious move toward unity with the OCA. What's he waiting for? Now's the time.
I very much agree with #7 "antiochian priest". While I agree with Met. Philip's comments (or most of his comments) I sense a level of hypocrisy here that is puzzling. It appears that Met. Philip loves to stand at the fore-front of the bishops to receive the acclaims of men, to thrust the Orthodox Churches into a new world, yet at the same time he actively inhibits his own archdiocese from moving forward with its own vision, a vision established by his own priests and commissions. I am very befuddled, indeed.
Having said that, however, I actively pray and support this effort. There are problems, yes, but it's the best chance we've seen for true unity and prgress in the decades of Orthodoxy here in North America.
Finally, I am disturbed by this term "diaspora". I am a convert to the Faith with a personal ancestral heritage that goes back 380 years in what is today the United States. I am not part of any "diaspora". I am an Orthodox Christian and an American citizen.
(Editor's note: They never said you were, they said the "So-called Diaspora". There, don't you feel better knowing they know you are not in the diaspora? Of course they continue to treat you as if you were, but give them credit for knowing you're not. The real point is, relax, be quiet, and let the Patriarchates abroad tell you how the church of your children, assuming any are still left in the Church, is going to be organized here. They've been doing this for 2,000 years so give them credit - its all going swimmingly well for Orthodoxy in Russia, the Balkans, Asia Minor and the Middle East, right? )
Having said that, however, I actively pray and support this effort. There are problems, yes, but it's the best chance we've seen for true unity and prgress in the decades of Orthodoxy here in North America.
Finally, I am disturbed by this term "diaspora". I am a convert to the Faith with a personal ancestral heritage that goes back 380 years in what is today the United States. I am not part of any "diaspora". I am an Orthodox Christian and an American citizen.
(Editor's note: They never said you were, they said the "So-called Diaspora". There, don't you feel better knowing they know you are not in the diaspora? Of course they continue to treat you as if you were, but give them credit for knowing you're not. The real point is, relax, be quiet, and let the Patriarchates abroad tell you how the church of your children, assuming any are still left in the Church, is going to be organized here. They've been doing this for 2,000 years so give them credit - its all going swimmingly well for Orthodoxy in Russia, the Balkans, Asia Minor and the Middle East, right? )
It's amazing to me that some are inspired by Met. Philip speech. It was good right until his invitation for his boss to move into the U.S. and rule us all. Clearly he is worried about his job while trying to finesse the OCA
I too am a 300 year plus American and while I don't need to wave a flag I have absolutly no interest in becoming a groupee of Istambul, Moscow or Greece. Sorry. It just doesn't make sence or does it make my appearence before God more acceptable.
What is interesting about this whole process is under the true intention of doing GODs work these bishops have lent a reality to the EP's vision of himself as world leader. It seems psychological madness to me to affirm a roll not in evidence to me. See Hitler...
As for "mother churches" ,isn't language an interesting thing?
When the need for romanticising the fantasy of our invisability they quickly pull out "mother"to soften things up a bit. What if they just got real and called them say, " churches of agression". Maybe some of you can tell me why this stuff is so seductive and appeals to folks? Does it make them feel safe?
Did the OCA just abandon Mexico this round?
I too am a 300 year plus American and while I don't need to wave a flag I have absolutly no interest in becoming a groupee of Istambul, Moscow or Greece. Sorry. It just doesn't make sence or does it make my appearence before God more acceptable.
What is interesting about this whole process is under the true intention of doing GODs work these bishops have lent a reality to the EP's vision of himself as world leader. It seems psychological madness to me to affirm a roll not in evidence to me. See Hitler...
As for "mother churches" ,isn't language an interesting thing?
When the need for romanticising the fantasy of our invisability they quickly pull out "mother"to soften things up a bit. What if they just got real and called them say, " churches of agression". Maybe some of you can tell me why this stuff is so seductive and appeals to folks? Does it make them feel safe?
Did the OCA just abandon Mexico this round?
Hopefully before it's too late, Metropolitan Philip will close ranks with all his brother diocesan bishops and with the OCA, resolutely declaring our need to be truly self-governing, leaving all the old world patriarchates to their own byzantine machinations.
#7 antiochian priest on 2010-05-27
Our shrewd never to be out byzantined by the Byzantine's Metropolitan Philip closes ranks only to insure that he can keep all perceived rivals, enemies, ect. within his grasp..uh brotherly embrace.
If you want to avoid duplicitous machinations you'd better make sure His Eminence is the first to book passage on any old world boat headed east.
#7 antiochian priest on 2010-05-27
Our shrewd never to be out byzantined by the Byzantine's Metropolitan Philip closes ranks only to insure that he can keep all perceived rivals, enemies, ect. within his grasp..uh brotherly embrace.
If you want to avoid duplicitous machinations you'd better make sure His Eminence is the first to book passage on any old world boat headed east.
As the saying goes...
When he's good he's very good; when he's bad, he's really terrible.
Kudos to +Philip for stating what a lot of people are afraid to say.
When he's good he's very good; when he's bad, he's really terrible.
Kudos to +Philip for stating what a lot of people are afraid to say.
Divisions of almost 100 years will not be healed in two days. Let us give this process a chance.
SCOBA was a failure because of the power plays by the heads of certain jurisdictions.
Now we have an assembly with more Bishops and no one bishop can stall the process.
If you look at the articles it allows for adjustments to the articles. Let us give the matter a little time.
The very fact that so many hierarchs gathered together after years of division is absolutely wonderful.
Now the heads of each jurisdiction is simply one of the many. Thank God.
We do have good Bishops let them implement te process.
The old guard was not able to give us unity, it is time for a completely new approach with fresh minds and better intentions.
SCOBA was a failure because of the power plays by the heads of certain jurisdictions.
Now we have an assembly with more Bishops and no one bishop can stall the process.
If you look at the articles it allows for adjustments to the articles. Let us give the matter a little time.
The very fact that so many hierarchs gathered together after years of division is absolutely wonderful.
Now the heads of each jurisdiction is simply one of the many. Thank God.
We do have good Bishops let them implement te process.
The old guard was not able to give us unity, it is time for a completely new approach with fresh minds and better intentions.
Get real. SCOBA did not fail. It did what it was created to do. It helped us toward unity until ONE HEAD of ONE JURISDICTION pulled the plug.
(Editor's note: Actually, the decision was reached by consensus; and Chambesy was agreed to by all the foreign patriarchates. Of course, Americans weren't asked, but then we never have been. Perhaps, now, if the Episcopal Assembly is to have meaning apart from just another mechanism of foreign control, Americans could now participate in pre-conciliar meetings as representatives of the North American Episcopal Assembly?
(Editor's note: Actually, the decision was reached by consensus; and Chambesy was agreed to by all the foreign patriarchates. Of course, Americans weren't asked, but then we never have been. Perhaps, now, if the Episcopal Assembly is to have meaning apart from just another mechanism of foreign control, Americans could now participate in pre-conciliar meetings as representatives of the North American Episcopal Assembly?
Good to see His Eminence Metropolitan Philip taking the bold visionary lead at this assembly. His insights and concerns must for the moment be conducive to his own ambition. Of course given his well known prediliction to change his mind when an abrupt reversal suits his design should not bring any comfort to those who now think him, their champion.
Just ask his newly demoted assistants. You know the former Antiochian Diocesan Bishops of blessed memory.
By now we should understand that when His Eminence speaks you should carefully observe which side of his mouth is moving.
Just ask his newly demoted assistants. You know the former Antiochian Diocesan Bishops of blessed memory.
By now we should understand that when His Eminence speaks you should carefully observe which side of his mouth is moving.
Metropolitan Philip is a visionary leader that has spoken and written as well as shown action toward unity on this continent. He has now challenged this assembly to this call yet again. I pray that he continues to lead us so that this vision can become reality.
He is a man of great intestinal fortitude who has the strength and conviction to move one step closer to this goal.
He is a man of great intestinal fortitude who has the strength and conviction to move one step closer to this goal.
Most of what Metropolitan Philip says is right on...
Then we come to this paragraph:
If I have a vision for the future, it is this: Jerusalem has less than 2,000 Orthodox left. Istanbul has 2,000 Greek Orthodox left. The future of Orthodoxy in the Middle East is uncertain. Thus, for the sake of international Orthodox unity and Orthodox unity in North America, we should with one
voice, beg His Holiness, the Ecumenical Patriarch to leave Istanbul and move to Washington, D.C. or New York City and head a united Orthodox Church in this hemisphere. All of us, I am sure, will be blessed to be under his omophorion and Orthodox unity in North America will cease to be a dream, but a reality.
What is this statement all about?
(Editor's note: At best, nothing. Most likely just blowing smoke to bring confusion. At worst, advocating a position you know the fullfillment of which is impossible only reveals you have other motives apart from the ones you are talking about. The Assembly, it appears, ignored it.)
Then we come to this paragraph:
If I have a vision for the future, it is this: Jerusalem has less than 2,000 Orthodox left. Istanbul has 2,000 Greek Orthodox left. The future of Orthodoxy in the Middle East is uncertain. Thus, for the sake of international Orthodox unity and Orthodox unity in North America, we should with one
voice, beg His Holiness, the Ecumenical Patriarch to leave Istanbul and move to Washington, D.C. or New York City and head a united Orthodox Church in this hemisphere. All of us, I am sure, will be blessed to be under his omophorion and Orthodox unity in North America will cease to be a dream, but a reality.
What is this statement all about?
(Editor's note: At best, nothing. Most likely just blowing smoke to bring confusion. At worst, advocating a position you know the fullfillment of which is impossible only reveals you have other motives apart from the ones you are talking about. The Assembly, it appears, ignored it.)
Mark, you read MP like a toddler's book. His actions contradict his words. He advocates for the OCA months after threatening to pull out the seminarians. He does not care about the OCA. He sees himself losing power as one among many. This is too much for any pope-phile.
(editor's note: I report the news - it doesn't mean I agree with him, or anybody whose speeches I report here. Nor do I judge his intentions, or purposes. I simply reported what he said. )
(editor's note: I report the news - it doesn't mean I agree with him, or anybody whose speeches I report here. Nor do I judge his intentions, or purposes. I simply reported what he said. )
What a great solution to the problem of American churches being controlled by foreign bishops: Just bring them all here, then they won't be foreign anymore! Wow, what genius!
People, don't ignore this comment seemingly made in passing. It is the dog that doesn't bark........
(Editor's note: Wisdom, indeed, mein Lieber.)
People, don't ignore this comment seemingly made in passing. It is the dog that doesn't bark........
(Editor's note: Wisdom, indeed, mein Lieber.)
I, for one, hope +Phillip's vision for the old-world patriarchs will earn adherents over time as conditions worsen overseas. Anyone who has been watching the decline of Orthodoxy in the Middle East (and of course Turkey), virtually all under oppression from the forces of Islam, must see that the time has come for these ancient sees to heed Christ's words: "If they persecute you in one place, flee to another." +Phillip knows what is coming over there: devastating war and persecution. He is offering refuge with honor to the vestiges of the ancient patriarchates. They would be wise to heed his visionary call. We in the US would be doubly blessed to embrace an Orthodox exodus from Jerusalem, Antioch/Syria, Iraq, and Constantinople to the relative freedom of the United States. Imagine the impact of such an Orthodox exodus... May it be blessed!
Mark,
I am pleased to see that you are 'alive and well' shame on a certain bishop who sent an e-mail saying you had been killed in a terrible accident- and my prayers for your family on the sad passing of your mother-
Memory Eternal
Rose Haddad,
St. George - Jacksonville, FL.
I am pleased to see that you are 'alive and well' shame on a certain bishop who sent an e-mail saying you had been killed in a terrible accident- and my prayers for your family on the sad passing of your mother-
Memory Eternal
Rose Haddad,
St. George - Jacksonville, FL.
Metropolitan PHILIP has always been, and has always continued to be, a hero of mine. His bold words are true, timely, and inspiring. Despite his serious mistakes, both recently and, as I experienced, in the past, he has consistently demonstrated a heart for unity, and the courage of a leader. I have always been proud to commemorate him at every liturgy I, as an Antiochian deacon and as an OCA priest, have celebrated.
If nothing else this assembly should be moving the antiochians, the Russians, the Serbians, the Bulgarians and the OCA closer together as they are willing to seek unity but not at the expense of domination.
Let us see how things pan out. If Istanbul s motives become. Obvious then the non- Greeks may dimly break away from those who betrayed them and unite even if they are not recognized for a century or so.
When the colonies broke away from British rule they started drinking coffee and tea sales went down. Basically they distanced themselves from British customs.
Let us see how things pan out. If Istanbul s motives become. Obvious then the non- Greeks may dimly break away from those who betrayed them and unite even if they are not recognized for a century or so.
When the colonies broke away from British rule they started drinking coffee and tea sales went down. Basically they distanced themselves from British customs.
"...and Orthodoxy in this country and throughout the world will become an insignificant dot on the margin of history.”
-M. PHILLIP
"My Kingdom is not of this world."
-Jesus Christ
May I be found thoroughly marginalized in the insignificance of that dot when He appears in glory.
-M. PHILLIP
"My Kingdom is not of this world."
-Jesus Christ
May I be found thoroughly marginalized in the insignificance of that dot when He appears in glory.
I totally agree with #15. Church in not the world and one cannot use worldly categories to describe its organization. The Colony versus Motherland scheme does not apply here.
Diptychs do have a meaning, as they reflect the proper order in which everything should be done in the Church, and, absurd as it may seem, the fact that the Bishops were seated according to the proper order is precisely what made this meeting a true coming together of the Church, not according to men's will, or some ideological schemes, but according to God's will as it is expressed in seemingly unimportant and sometimes arbitrary Church bylaws. It inscribes American unity in the Ecumenical (Universal) and Catholic unity of the Church, which adds much to its significance. Time will tell, whether the so-called “Mother churches” will be able or not to see beyond their worldly interests and let emerge a new Church organization. Anyway, the Church is being built not by men's hand but by God (though admittedly God gets the job made through men's hand).
For the time beeing Church unity in America is not possible without Constantinople as the Primatial see and without a consensus of the so-called “Mother churches”. We really should reread Fr. Alexander Schmemann's study on primacy and the role of Constantinople and actually all Fr Alexander's early writings on Church organization published in Paris in the early 50's. It is very surprising that there are yet (to my knowledge) no English translations of these seminal texts.
(Editor's note: Well, Daniel, we'll take that as a agreement to volunteer to translate them. I, for one, would love to read them, even if I suspect that in the ensuing 20 years Fr. Alexander's views changed after actually living in America. That often happens...)
Diptychs do have a meaning, as they reflect the proper order in which everything should be done in the Church, and, absurd as it may seem, the fact that the Bishops were seated according to the proper order is precisely what made this meeting a true coming together of the Church, not according to men's will, or some ideological schemes, but according to God's will as it is expressed in seemingly unimportant and sometimes arbitrary Church bylaws. It inscribes American unity in the Ecumenical (Universal) and Catholic unity of the Church, which adds much to its significance. Time will tell, whether the so-called “Mother churches” will be able or not to see beyond their worldly interests and let emerge a new Church organization. Anyway, the Church is being built not by men's hand but by God (though admittedly God gets the job made through men's hand).
For the time beeing Church unity in America is not possible without Constantinople as the Primatial see and without a consensus of the so-called “Mother churches”. We really should reread Fr. Alexander Schmemann's study on primacy and the role of Constantinople and actually all Fr Alexander's early writings on Church organization published in Paris in the early 50's. It is very surprising that there are yet (to my knowledge) no English translations of these seminal texts.
(Editor's note: Well, Daniel, we'll take that as a agreement to volunteer to translate them. I, for one, would love to read them, even if I suspect that in the ensuing 20 years Fr. Alexander's views changed after actually living in America. That often happens...)
Regarding + Philip's remarks: he knows as well as the entire Orthodox world that once + Bart leaves Istanbul, he can no longer claim the title, "first among equals." So, + Bart will stay until the last 25 Orthodox are left. However, what does the title "first among equals" mean? All it means is that he chairs the meetings when all the patriarchs & bishops meet - NO EXTRA AUTHORITY OR POWER. And, he handles disputes between patriarchs. There is NO 'Ecumenical Patriarch." This title may have meant something when there was a Byzantine Empire & the Pat. of Constantinople was the bishop of the Emperor, but today, it's a ridiculous title which is laughable at best! Again, the Pat. of Istanbul ONLY has authority over his own local territory and not beyond the territorial area of Istanbul - Orthodox Canon Law!
May I be found thoroughly marginalized in the insignificance of that dot when He appears in glory.
#15 Brian Van Sickle on 2010-05-29 08:40 (Reply)
You may desire this as a lover of The Kingdom of God. But trust me, no such silly and weak minded sentiment resides in Englewood.
#15 Brian Van Sickle on 2010-05-29 08:40 (Reply)
You may desire this as a lover of The Kingdom of God. But trust me, no such silly and weak minded sentiment resides in Englewood.
"...and Orthodoxy in this country and throughout the world will become an insignificant dot on the margin of history.”
-M. PHILLIP
Too late.
-M. PHILLIP
Too late.
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