Saturday, February 17. 2007
Fr. Ted has several thought-provoking suggestions. What do you think of his proposals, suggestions, ideas, and perspectives?
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I think Father Ted Bobosh writes with sincerity and the search for truth. If the Special Commission is only concerned to skirt the issues and continue the playing of game "you can't catch me", then the time has come to plant a new seed where truth is not subject to being choked and distorted.
Matushka Carol Klipa Bacha
#1 Anonymous on 2007-02-17 14:42
Hear! Hear! Well said Father Bobosh. If only you could persuage the Alaska hierarchy to speak out on this issue. A gag order is out that no one utters a word of any of this. We all know what is happening, and it's so archiac to have to sit on our hands and pretend nothing is happening.
Please do not use my name as the Bishop of Alaska is non-forgiving.
#2 Anonymous on 2007-02-17 18:36
Even on the eve of Great Lent, you, Fr. Bobosh, expend your spiritual effort on this? You should be ashamed. All of us should turn this website OFF for the entire time of Lent. None of you will ever let this issue go because you will never be satisfied with anything but full vindication. You will not let our OCA recover because you will DEMAND, as Fr. Bobosh says, your way or no other way. DEMAND. The only thing we should demand from each other is forgiveness. Forgiveness brothers and sisters in Christ. Forgiveness. Listen carefully to tomorrow's Gospel. There is no room for any justification. We either forgive each other or not. And if we do not, then God will not forgive us.
I ask for your forgiveness and I forgive any and all people involved for what they may or may not have done. I will enter Great Lent free of any agenda towards anyone. Can you say the same thing. I pray you can, for the sake of my soul and yours. We must forgive.
Do things differently. Learn for our mistakes. But forgive.
May God forgive us.
#3 Anonymous on 2007-02-17 19:52
I promised myself that I would never again reply to this website but your writing was too much to resist. Bravo as someone anonymous said. I will give my name if I respond to anything. you are dead right but where is the support. in all of the writings here I see much wisdom but no action. The canons provide for the solution of the prpblems we are experiencing. Is there no one to enforce them? You are right, we don't need the FBI or the courts to do this. Tell us faithful Orthodox Christians what to do!! We are the Church, not the heiroarchs. They shousd be chosen by us!!! And they can be deposed by us!! As far as gag orders, This is the USA. Has anyone heard of the first amendment? It just takes guts to say what you know to be true and if it is that cannot hurt you. I enjoyed reading your statements and they seem to come from one who is faithful to his calling.
Thomas Haulund, former priest in the Alaskan Diocese. No gag orders during my time.
#4 Thomas Haulund on 2007-02-17 22:04
Your outstanding job on this site is very well appreciated by so many readers including sincere OCA priests like Fr Bobosh. It is so nice to see such high class reflection posted on this site and to think about the wrong way the OCA hierarchy went for so long time.
We all should understand that the current OCA hierarchy does not know the Canons of the Orthodox Christian Church and do not want to observe them. This is my conclusion following the reading of posted materials on this site, corroborated to the attitude of the OCA hierarchy which is fueling the current crisis.
People from the OCA and not only are surprised by the lack of observance Gospel and Canonical principles totally ignored by the current OCA hierarchy and central administration. It is the appearance that there are just few OCA hierarchs willing to reveal much more of the cover up, but they are afraid of MH Swaiko and his allies.
All the Gospel and Canonical provisions broken by MH and his allies will be having the domino effect. There is no doubt that the OCA hierarchy is running the entire show of this financial crisis, but it is a BIG SHAME to do something like this within the Church of our Savior Jesus Christ.
Fr Bobosh reflection should determine some OCA hierarchs either to resign or retire. It is also a shame to see this ongoind crisis without any comment, reflection, or any posting from the OCA current Theological Seminary Teachers. It is their responsibility to act "de facto" at least within the time being.
There is no Canonical provision for any GAG ORDER, improperly / anti-canonically used by any OCA hierarch, including MH. It is absurd to believe in any effect of this kind of kidding = gag order. The entire show run by this corrupted oca elite will end sometime soon.
Fr Bobosh can do much more in starting calling people to rally against those who feel irresponsible for the current crisis. In case a march will take place in New York asking for the resignation of MH then you will see results.
There was a concerted action done by the Greek hierarchs, clergy and laity, watched from a distance by the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartolomeu I, prior to the resignation of the GOA Archbishop Spiridon.
Money counts much more than people. In case the OCA people are looking for immediate results and resignation, then all the OCA priests, parish council president and lay people should vehemently protest against Syosset abuses.
Even though the reflection of Fr Bobosh in nicely done based on biblical quotations and thoughts, it will have not too much effect, because the runners of the show know the tipic by heart, being masters of deceit and concealment. The devil is running the show too, but it is invisible. It is sad to see this crisis prolonged and the results of the Commission kept secretly for so long, if ANY.
It is the appropriate time for the Metropolitan Council to take in their hands the bulls horn, and give them a lesson.
The courageous members of the Metropolitan Council along with faithful and not fearful OCA bishops should openly and clearly ask for the resignation of MH at their upcoming meeting. Enough is enough. Stop playing games.
MH from Syosset and V Rev Fr R Kondratick from Venice, FL are running the show. When MH will be out of the Syosset scene, then the results will be seen, and the healing process will begin. As long as MH is in Syosset, and his cronies are playing games with Kondratick, and the federal agencies will do nothing, NOBODY can expect anything better.
At the beginning of the Great Lent, those OCA hierarchs whose hands are not clean because of this current financial crisis, in dignity and honesty should ask for "MEA CULPA", and then should retire and go to any monastery. This would be another way results could be anticipated.
Let hope for the best from the Metropolitan Council meeting.
In Christ the Lord,
Kalistos Papadakis, 2 / 18 / 7
#5 Kalistos Papadakis on 2007-02-18 01:56
Forgive---Forgive---forgive-turn your cheek, get smacked around, and let the people who have hurt our church go free and not be held accountable for their doings. this has been going on since the beginning of the OCA.
I am laughing at your summary of the doings in this church.
I would also sign Anonymous if I wrote that posting!
St James--Brother of the Lord
Kansas City, MO
It would be ideal to wipe the slate clean, ask for forgiveness and go into great lent with a clean heart. Forgiveness for what? . . . anger at the metropolitan for withholding information, protecting someone or many, misappropriating monies donated for a specific purpose, putting the OCA deeper into debt by hiring criminal lawyers? These deeds have been done, but none have come forth to ask our forgiveness and none have shown remorse or efforts to correct their ways.
God gave man a free will. Each of us must determine the correct road to travel. We cannot permit strong-willed, power-hungry, greedy people to lead us in the wrong direction by looking the other way.
#7 anon on 2007-02-18 12:00
To change the subject. Page 185, of our copy of "The Prologue from Orchid" for February 18th, has two paragraphs about St.Leo the first, Pope of Rome. Paragraph 2 tells us ....."as death drew near, he (St.Leo) spent forty days in fasting and prayer by the tomb of Apostle Peter, begging him to tell him if his sins were forgiven. The Apostle appeared to him and assured him that they were, except for his sins in the ordaining of priests (from which it is seen how grave a sin it is to ordain an unworthy man)".
QUERY: If it's such a great sin to ordain an unworthy man to the priesthood, how much greater is the sin to consecrate an unworthy man to the episcopy? A question to ponder in these tumultuous times.
#8 nicholas skovran on 2007-02-18 15:09
Dear "Whose name cannot be mentioned,"
Have you ever read any of the Lenten homilies of St. John Chrysostom? He did stop addressing moral, church and contemporary issues in order to pursue the spiritual pastime of Great Lent. All life was spiritual to him, and throughout Lent he didn't withdraw from life's challenge to Christianity, Rather he address himself to empresses, bishops and the masses as well, to speak to each about daily life in the church, to speak about scandals and problems in the church and in society.
Now is the time for salvation.
We are at war with the prince of darkness, and Lent is the right time to engage in spiritual warfare.
Christ is forgiving, yet He demanded to know from St. Peter three times, "Do you love me?", even though this questioning grieved Peter deeply. According to John's Gospel Jesus then went on to indicate by what death Peter would glorify God.
I think Christ will forgive those who have failed Him in the Church. But He is demanding to know from them if they love Him. And, if they do, by what means will they glorify Him?
#9 Anomalous on 2007-02-18 19:16
Yours is a false forgiveness that is meaningless and faceless!
#10 Kenneth R. Tobin on 2007-02-19 05:45
Excellent points! And I would like to second your comments with respect to the seminaries and theologians. Where are you? Silenced? Impotent? Cowardly? Shame!
The OCA in crisis and only silence from you, for the most part. I know Fr. Hopko has spoken out eloquently and sometimes with trenchant perception, but has now retreated into a self-imposed (?) silence. Maybe some of the anonymous posts are from theologians/seminary professors?
Well, we all know the consequences of bucking episcopal authority, but conscience and free will trump this misuse of authority. Once again, we are reminded of why Archbishop Job stands tall for his recognition and respect for conscience and ordered liberty. His is the model for future leadership in this regard--not the reactionary and tyrannical rule of incompetent autocrats whose days are numbered!
#11 Kenneth R. Tobin on 2007-02-19 06:34
Yes, where are they? One is led to wonder and add to your list: Ashamed? Implicated?...
#12 Anonymous on 2007-02-19 08:47
I add my two-cents today due to some of the remarks that I read in this thread.
I believe that one can forgive someone, yet take steps to insure the trespass (or injury) never occurs again. Whenever I say this, I think of the following.
You and your wife return home to discover the teen babysitting your children did not exercise sound judgment, placing your children at risk. You can forgive the teenager, but still inform his or her parents. You can forgive, yet arrange for someone else to watch your kids the next time. To do otherwise puts your children at risk. Perhaps in a few years you will view this teen as a more mature and reliable teen. Then you may let him or her baby-sit for you once again.
In his comments, Father Bobosh gave us good reasons for expecting the Metropolitan Council to get to the bottom of the scandal, working with the Synod of Bishops and OCA membership to insure (as best an organization can) business as usual becomes a thing of the past and finally, conducting its business out–in-the-open. I agree state and federal law enforcement might address our issue. However, I suggest we work together to clean up our house. The history of early Christianity teaches us to work together. We should begin cleaning our house now. Doing so will make it easier to preach the Good News.
#13 Samuel on 2007-02-19 11:19
I am a little lost on what is happening with the Proskauer Rose investigation. Is it done? Has a small group of people seen it? Has any portion been published?
Thanks for updating us,
(Editor's Note: The PR investigation is done to a large extent. No one has "seen" anything, since no report has been written. Evidence has been collected, and that has been shared with the Special Commission. Nothing has been published. )
#14 Patty Schellbach on 2007-02-19 17:33
Where the hell is it? We, all of us paid for it and will probably be paying for the forseable future, not the special commission I expect to get what I am charged for or I do not pay the bill!!!
#15 THOMAS hAULUND on 2007-02-19 20:48
Excellent point! Where are the theologians and the true leaders of the Church? If more of them don't speak and lead now, it they don't continue to be the voice in the wilderness, if they don't shine their light to show us the way and correct this horrible situation then who can? If not now, then when?
Of all the people who could and should continously speak, question, teach, and lead, they are the most qualified and best trained. They have the authority, the widsom, the training, and the experience. Many have the power, prestige, carisma and love and respect of the flock. Why the continuing silence? In the face of such chaos, confusion, and misconduct, so many still shy away from doing and saying the right thing. How much worse does it have to get before decisive action it taken by EVERYONE who has the common sense and ability to discern the truth and walk the narrow path?
Fr. Ted, thank you for your very thoughtful and prayerful statement. You did a good job laying out the issues. I don't think what you said is inconsistent with what we are to be doing during Great Lent. As you said in your reflection, we all bear some responsibiility for what we have to done help create this situation by being passive and indifferent, waiting for someone else to act instead of being wise and vigilant and asking certain questions that needed to be asked when the time was right and they weren't. I know this very passiviity and indiffernece is something I need to repent of and ask forgiveness for. Thank you for your honesty and courage. By they way have you ever considered applying for Chancellor?
Fr. Paul Gassios
#17 Fr. Paul Gassios on 2007-02-20 04:26
There are different ways one can approach a subject or problem. It would appear that the most productive way is to be reasoned, respectful and open to hear what others say and thing. Yet we see some in commenting on reflections or articles on this site succumb to sarcasm bordering on the vulgar, dismissive attitudes and even what appears to be an almost hatred toward others. This is unfortunate. (I should note that the article by Father does not convey such attitudes and while I do not agree with all that was written, I can respect him for the spirit in which he offered it.)
I do think that much more is accomplished if persons sincerely express a desire to see wrongs corrected and put aside any need for revenge or anything akin for whatever they have experienced.
Some like to dismiss the calls and even crys for forgiveness--yet they are a foundation of Christ's teachings and in our own salvation. It is even how we began this Lenten season. I know I will not convince all, but can we not at least pray for each other and for all involved, and not be too quick to dismiss the words about forgiveness from Christ and the saints and the many Church Fathers?
I also would like to share the following, which is such a beautiful and meaningful example of love:
An elder was once asked, "What is a compassionate heart?" He replied: "It is a heart on fire for the whole of creation, for
humanity, for the birds, for the animals, for all that exists. At the recollection and at the sight of them such a person's eyes overflow with tears owing to the vehemence of the compassion which grips his heart. As a result of his deep mercy his heart shrinks and cannot bear to hear or
look on any injury or the slightest suffering of anything in creation.
That is why he constantly offers up prayer full of tears, even for the irrational animals and for the enemies of truth, even for those who harm him, so that they may be protected and find mercy. He even prays for the reptiles as a result of the great compassion which is poured out beyond measure -- after the likeness of God -- in his heart."
St. Isaac of Nineveh ("The Syrian"), 7th century
#18 Archpriest William DuBovik on 2007-02-20 10:12
Correction - None of us will ever let this issue go because we will never be satisfied with anything but the full TRUTH.
#19 John D. Sheposh on 2007-02-21 22:46
Please stop with the forgiveness during great lent. We must get the truth and forgiveness comes only when the sinners repent and tell the entire truth.
And please if you have a conviction have the courage to sign your name. I dont think anonymous remarks should be posted.
I always have signed my name to my remarks. I believe it is important for the people to have courage and let the so called leaders of oca know what we want. We only want the truth and then repentance and of course as orthodox christians we will forgive.
But please dont think that asking for the truth is being unkind. I think the greatest kindess is concern for the Holy Church. The thuth must come out at any cost because if it doesnt the true cost will then become too much.
I have suggested mh and the other leaders repent and go to the monastery. And resign. It would be in their own personal interest to do just this. The church then can regroup and start doing the work it was meant to do.
#20 John Macenka on 2007-02-22 16:41
Dear Father Dubovik, your posts seem to indicate that you are surprised, or offended by the thoughts shared on this web site. It might help you to understand that many Orthodox are deeply wounded by this scandal. This is why there are so many painfilled comments. (Sarcasm is a way of dealing with pain, by the way) You need not assume that those who post here have not forgiven, have not seen this crisis with hearts of charity, especially please do not assume that many tears have not been shed. This is the most sorrowful time in our OCA history. What do you counsel a man or woman who tells you that they are being abused in their marriage? Physically abused? I am deeply offended by your posts. Alice Carter
#21 alice carter on 2007-02-23 11:33
Please do NOT, anyone, "stop with the forgiveness in great lent."
Or at the very least, please choose your wording a bit more carefully.
#22 Fr. Dennis Buck on 2007-02-24 17:49
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