Monday, April 16. 2007
Comments after the Pause
I have not posted comments that came in during the pause. If those who sent them would still like to have them posted, two weeks later, please resubmit.
Otherwise, feel free to comment anew on the editorial, where we are, where we are going, what you would like to see happen or the events of the past three weeks.
Otherwise, feel free to comment anew on the editorial, where we are, where we are going, what you would like to see happen or the events of the past three weeks.
Trackbacks
Trackback specific URI for this entry
No Trackbacks
Comments
Display comments as
(Linear | Threaded)
As I ponder where we have been in the past weeks - the journey to Pascha - I continue to be perplexed at how authorities in the church can be so callous to the needs of the church and how their actions - or lack thereof - affect the faithful of the church. As a church we have walked through confession and repentance and now the Resurrection. Is this only for the faithful and not for those entrusted with the care of the church? Are they not concerned about their own salvation and the price they will eventually pay by refusing to do the right thing in regards to repenting and bringing this scandal to a close.
As we read the Gospel for Palm Sunday it gave me great pause when I read the following part of it -
Six days before the Passover Jesus came to Bethany, the home of Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. There they gave a dinner for him. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those at the table with him. Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’ feet, and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was about to betray him), said, "Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?" (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.) Jesus said, "Leave her alone. She bought it so that she might keep it for the day of my burial. You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me."
My question is "What makes our hierarchs and different from Judas? They are thieves who have committed terrible sins against Christ and their flock. They, like Judas, are to be called thieves as they have stolen money from the money box of the Church.
What part of repentance is misunderstood by these people who call themselves Christian?
It seems to me to be more appropriate to say that they are followers of Judas who gave us the supreme example of betrayal. Are these men above confession and repentance which is the cornerstone of the church or is it only the flock that is called to be faithful?
This is surely a mystery - but not the kind that I look for in the Church.
In Christ,
Carolyn Russ
As we read the Gospel for Palm Sunday it gave me great pause when I read the following part of it -
Six days before the Passover Jesus came to Bethany, the home of Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. There they gave a dinner for him. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those at the table with him. Mary took a pound of costly perfume made of pure nard, anointed Jesus’ feet, and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was about to betray him), said, "Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the money given to the poor?" (He said this not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief; he kept the common purse and used to steal what was put into it.) Jesus said, "Leave her alone. She bought it so that she might keep it for the day of my burial. You always have the poor with you, but you do not always have me."
My question is "What makes our hierarchs and different from Judas? They are thieves who have committed terrible sins against Christ and their flock. They, like Judas, are to be called thieves as they have stolen money from the money box of the Church.
What part of repentance is misunderstood by these people who call themselves Christian?
It seems to me to be more appropriate to say that they are followers of Judas who gave us the supreme example of betrayal. Are these men above confession and repentance which is the cornerstone of the church or is it only the flock that is called to be faithful?
This is surely a mystery - but not the kind that I look for in the Church.
In Christ,
Carolyn Russ
#1
Carolyn Russ
on
2007-04-16 11:34
Fools we are. And we must plod on as our consciences require. Followers of the Lord Jesus are not people without hope and even if nothing is set aright, we still are doing the right thing – bringing clarity and pressure to a messy situation.
Some years ago after Mother Teresa was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, she was asked by a reporter how she could continue her work among the poor of Calcutta when all her efforts were but a drop in a sea of poverty and hopelessness and she was therefore unsuccessful. The saint replied (I am paraphrasing here as I don’t remember the exact words): “God does not ask us to be successful, but faithful.”
Count me in.
Some years ago after Mother Teresa was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, she was asked by a reporter how she could continue her work among the poor of Calcutta when all her efforts were but a drop in a sea of poverty and hopelessness and she was therefore unsuccessful. The saint replied (I am paraphrasing here as I don’t remember the exact words): “God does not ask us to be successful, but faithful.”
Count me in.
#2
Terry C. Peet
on
2007-04-16 12:55
I haven't heard such defeatism since this Congress took their seats. A week after Christ destroyed death, we're treated to such defeatism from one of our clergy. How fast we forget what we did just last week.
The fact is we have effected change in the past year and a half. The facade that this bunch operated under has been shattered. The gig is up. They have been shown for the shallow, hollow human beings they are. Trust is shattered and their lifeblood, money, is not flowing in. They no longer have any moral leadership. The very things which are so necessary for them to continue effectively have been lost. Is this occurring as fast as we'd like? No, and we know this is because we're trying to overthrow an entrenched culture of corruption and evil and people who are not what they
want us to believe they are. It's an uphill fight. We must, however, not let time be their ally as they want. They feel that if they can rope-a-dope us we'll get tired and they have won. That's how they see this: as them "winning" over us. It's that attitude that rather than us wanting to work together to correct the problems in our Church, they see us as enemies
wanting to ruin their dwindling empire. They have no good in their hearts and connive against us in darkness. It can't last when we stand strong.
Keep the faith. We can wait a long time, life is eternal, something they fail to recognize. What they can hide and delay from us will only last their earthly lives. I dread to think what they are up against after us. It's too bad, though, that some clergy have gone the route of defeatism and taken to calling us "fools". But if they must feel that way, so be it. Just get out of our way.
Cheers,
Bob
The fact is we have effected change in the past year and a half. The facade that this bunch operated under has been shattered. The gig is up. They have been shown for the shallow, hollow human beings they are. Trust is shattered and their lifeblood, money, is not flowing in. They no longer have any moral leadership. The very things which are so necessary for them to continue effectively have been lost. Is this occurring as fast as we'd like? No, and we know this is because we're trying to overthrow an entrenched culture of corruption and evil and people who are not what they
want us to believe they are. It's an uphill fight. We must, however, not let time be their ally as they want. They feel that if they can rope-a-dope us we'll get tired and they have won. That's how they see this: as them "winning" over us. It's that attitude that rather than us wanting to work together to correct the problems in our Church, they see us as enemies
wanting to ruin their dwindling empire. They have no good in their hearts and connive against us in darkness. It can't last when we stand strong.
Keep the faith. We can wait a long time, life is eternal, something they fail to recognize. What they can hide and delay from us will only last their earthly lives. I dread to think what they are up against after us. It's too bad, though, that some clergy have gone the route of defeatism and taken to calling us "fools". But if they must feel that way, so be it. Just get out of our way.
Cheers,
Bob
#3
Bob Czech
on
2007-04-16 13:20
The last administration fired Eric Wheeler but named a building after Theodosius. This administration suspended Greg Nescott but awarded Joseph Fester a jeweled cross.
I'm in the Midwest, but sometimes I wonder what planet the OCA is on.
Eddie K.
I'm in the Midwest, but sometimes I wonder what planet the OCA is on.
Eddie K.
#4
Eddie Kayeti
on
2007-04-16 13:50
We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are held in honor, but we in disrepute. 1 Cor 4:10 RSV
If, according to your behind the scene rector, we are fools, we are in good company. Here is a list of "Fools" from Orthodoxwiki.org
A list of some of the Fools-for-Christ's sake:
· Anastasia Andretevna, Fool-for-Christ (March 1)
· Blessed Andrew the Fool-for-Christ of Constantinople (October 2) (d. 936)
o Blessed Andrew, Fool for Christ
o The Protection of the Most Holy Theotokos
o Saint Andrew, Fool-for-Christ - October 2/15
· Blessed Andrew of Totma, the Fool-for-Christ (October 10)
· Blessed Anthony Alexseevich, Fool-for-Christ of Zadonsk (September 29 - repose of) (1851)
· Anthony Ivanovich, Fool-for-Christ of Valaam (June 7 - repose of) (1832)
· Saint Arsenius of Novgorod, Fool-for-Christ
· Asenatha of Goritsky, Fool-for-Christ (April 19 - repose of) (1892)
· Blessed Athanasius Adrewyevich of Orel, Fool-for-Christ (April 12 - repose of) (1967)
· Blessed Basil of Moscow, Fool-for-Christ (August 2)
· Blessed Cyprian of Suzdal (October 2)
· Blessed George of Shenkursk, Fool-for-Christ (April 23)
· Saint Isidore the Fool of Tabenna in Egypt (May 10)
· Venerable Isidore the Fool-for-Christ and Wonder-worker of Rostov (May 14)
· Blessed John "the Hairy" the Fool-for-Christ at Rostov (September 3 and November 12)
· Venerable John the Ascetic and Fool-for-Christ
· Blessed John of Ustiug the Fool-for-Christ (March 14 and May 29 - repose of) (1893)
· Blessed John of Moscow, Miracle-worker and Fool-for-Christ (July 3)
· Jonah, Fool-for-Christ of Peshnosha Monastery (June 15 - repose of) (1838)
· Blessed Laurence the Fool-for-Christ at Kaluga (August 10)
· Blessed Maximus of Totma (Vologda), Fool-for-Christ (January 16)
· Venerable Maximus of Moscow the Fool-for-Christ (August 13 - opening of his relics)
· Venerable Michael the Fool-for-Christ of the Klops Monastery (January 11) (June 23 - translation of his relics)
· New-Martyr Michael (Misha), Fool-for-Christ (April 1) (1931)
· Blessed Michael and Thomas, Fools-for-Christ of Solvychegodsk (Vologda) (July 3)
· Blessed Nicholas of Salos of Pskov the Fool-for-Christ (February 28)
· Blessed Nicholas Kochanov, Fool-for-Christ at Novgorod (July 27)
· Blessed Paisius, Fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (April 17 - repose of) (1893)
· Blessed Parasceva "Pasha of Sarov," Fool-for Christ of Diveyevo Convent (September 22) (1915)
o Blessed Praskovya Ivanovna (Pasha of Sarov)
· Saint Paul, Fool-for-Christ (November 6)
· Pelagia Ivanovna Serebrennikova
o Pelagia Ivanovna a.k.a. Pelagia the Holy Fool
o Blessed Pelagia Ivanovna
· Blessed Procopius of Vyatka, Fool-for-Christ
· Saint Procopius the Fool-for-Christ and Wonder-worker of Ustiug
· Righteous Procopius of Usya (Vologda), Fool-for-Christ
· Venerable Symeon of Emesa the Fool-for-Christ (July 21)
· Blessed Simon of Yurievits, Fool-for-Christ (May 10)
· Blessed Theodore of Novgorod, Fool-for-Christ (January 19)
· Saint Theodore, Fool-for-Christ (February 25)
· New-Martyr Theoktista Michailovna of Voronezh (February 22) (1936)
· Blessed Schema-hieromonk Theophilus, Fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (October 28 - repose of) (1852)
· Saint Thomas the Fool of Syria (April 24)
· Saint Xenia of St. Petersburg, Fool-for-Christ (January 24)
If, according to your behind the scene rector, we are fools, we are in good company. Here is a list of "Fools" from Orthodoxwiki.org
A list of some of the Fools-for-Christ's sake:
· Anastasia Andretevna, Fool-for-Christ (March 1)
· Blessed Andrew the Fool-for-Christ of Constantinople (October 2) (d. 936)
o Blessed Andrew, Fool for Christ
o The Protection of the Most Holy Theotokos
o Saint Andrew, Fool-for-Christ - October 2/15
· Blessed Andrew of Totma, the Fool-for-Christ (October 10)
· Blessed Anthony Alexseevich, Fool-for-Christ of Zadonsk (September 29 - repose of) (1851)
· Anthony Ivanovich, Fool-for-Christ of Valaam (June 7 - repose of) (1832)
· Saint Arsenius of Novgorod, Fool-for-Christ
· Asenatha of Goritsky, Fool-for-Christ (April 19 - repose of) (1892)
· Blessed Athanasius Adrewyevich of Orel, Fool-for-Christ (April 12 - repose of) (1967)
· Blessed Basil of Moscow, Fool-for-Christ (August 2)
· Blessed Cyprian of Suzdal (October 2)
· Blessed George of Shenkursk, Fool-for-Christ (April 23)
· Saint Isidore the Fool of Tabenna in Egypt (May 10)
· Venerable Isidore the Fool-for-Christ and Wonder-worker of Rostov (May 14)
· Blessed John "the Hairy" the Fool-for-Christ at Rostov (September 3 and November 12)
· Venerable John the Ascetic and Fool-for-Christ
· Blessed John of Ustiug the Fool-for-Christ (March 14 and May 29 - repose of) (1893)
· Blessed John of Moscow, Miracle-worker and Fool-for-Christ (July 3)
· Jonah, Fool-for-Christ of Peshnosha Monastery (June 15 - repose of) (1838)
· Blessed Laurence the Fool-for-Christ at Kaluga (August 10)
· Blessed Maximus of Totma (Vologda), Fool-for-Christ (January 16)
· Venerable Maximus of Moscow the Fool-for-Christ (August 13 - opening of his relics)
· Venerable Michael the Fool-for-Christ of the Klops Monastery (January 11) (June 23 - translation of his relics)
· New-Martyr Michael (Misha), Fool-for-Christ (April 1) (1931)
· Blessed Michael and Thomas, Fools-for-Christ of Solvychegodsk (Vologda) (July 3)
· Blessed Nicholas of Salos of Pskov the Fool-for-Christ (February 28)
· Blessed Nicholas Kochanov, Fool-for-Christ at Novgorod (July 27)
· Blessed Paisius, Fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (April 17 - repose of) (1893)
· Blessed Parasceva "Pasha of Sarov," Fool-for Christ of Diveyevo Convent (September 22) (1915)
o Blessed Praskovya Ivanovna (Pasha of Sarov)
· Saint Paul, Fool-for-Christ (November 6)
· Pelagia Ivanovna Serebrennikova
o Pelagia Ivanovna a.k.a. Pelagia the Holy Fool
o Blessed Pelagia Ivanovna
· Blessed Procopius of Vyatka, Fool-for-Christ
· Saint Procopius the Fool-for-Christ and Wonder-worker of Ustiug
· Righteous Procopius of Usya (Vologda), Fool-for-Christ
· Venerable Symeon of Emesa the Fool-for-Christ (July 21)
· Blessed Simon of Yurievits, Fool-for-Christ (May 10)
· Blessed Theodore of Novgorod, Fool-for-Christ (January 19)
· Saint Theodore, Fool-for-Christ (February 25)
· New-Martyr Theoktista Michailovna of Voronezh (February 22) (1936)
· Blessed Schema-hieromonk Theophilus, Fool-for-Christ of the Kiev Caves (October 28 - repose of) (1852)
· Saint Thomas the Fool of Syria (April 24)
· Saint Xenia of St. Petersburg, Fool-for-Christ (January 24)
#5
Betty C.
on
2007-04-16 14:31
There is more than one way of spinning Bp Dmitri's actions. Another way of looking at it might be that Bp Dmitri is trying to keep Fr Robert from being scape-goated. If Fr Robert is transferred back and is punished, it could be that the hierarchy will say, "that's it, the matter is finished". Obviously, this is only true if Fr Robert is solely to blame. Bp Dmitri's action can be seen as a method (over which he has a certain amount of control) of forcing more action by the Synod.
The consternation of so many with Bp Dmitri seems a little premature, since these moves were made only days before Holy Week silenced the episcopal activities, so we don't know the next moves of anyone's gambit.
Christ is Risen.
The consternation of so many with Bp Dmitri seems a little premature, since these moves were made only days before Holy Week silenced the episcopal activities, so we don't know the next moves of anyone's gambit.
Christ is Risen.
#6
RS
on
2007-04-16 15:52
Amen to that.
#7
Fr. John A. Peck
on
2007-04-16 16:12
In the final analysis, life holds only two alternatives, to be a fool for Christ, or a plain fool. We all must ask ourselves: Whose fool are we?
#8
Fr John Reeves
on
2007-04-16 17:02
Mark,
I liked your posted comments about St. John Chrysostom and "fools" for Christ. Perhaps someone has mentioned it already, but the unfolding events of Watergate ocurred through the diligence of two newspaper reporters who helped uncover the corruption at the highest level. I believe we have an OCA-gate because it all feels so much the same.
"Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, 'It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'" (Matt. 21: 12-13 from the Orthodox Study Bible, pp. 57-58) The Orthodox Study Bible interprets: "When Jesus sees that worship has become commercialized, He acts against the abuses, boldy overturning the tables and casting the tradesmen out. The cleansing of the temple is seen as an image of the cleansing of our souls" (p. 58).
Jesus acted against such materialistic abuse in the most courageous and radical way. The OCA has similarly participated in materialistic abuse with all that has transpired with the mishandling of funds. We need to be bold and courageous as Jesus was to "cleans the temple," the administration and how it works, with such abuse. Some progress has been made. It is not enough. Not even if they did one thing wrong (which looks doubtful from the amount of evidence and documents and apologies) Metropolitan Herman and Fr. Paul Kucynda should resign as a matter of stepping out of the way for the sake of integrity and the future of the OCA. This would be so in keeping with starting a new page for the OCA being a "fool for Christ."
Patty Schellbach
I liked your posted comments about St. John Chrysostom and "fools" for Christ. Perhaps someone has mentioned it already, but the unfolding events of Watergate ocurred through the diligence of two newspaper reporters who helped uncover the corruption at the highest level. I believe we have an OCA-gate because it all feels so much the same.
"Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, 'It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'" (Matt. 21: 12-13 from the Orthodox Study Bible, pp. 57-58) The Orthodox Study Bible interprets: "When Jesus sees that worship has become commercialized, He acts against the abuses, boldy overturning the tables and casting the tradesmen out. The cleansing of the temple is seen as an image of the cleansing of our souls" (p. 58).
Jesus acted against such materialistic abuse in the most courageous and radical way. The OCA has similarly participated in materialistic abuse with all that has transpired with the mishandling of funds. We need to be bold and courageous as Jesus was to "cleans the temple," the administration and how it works, with such abuse. Some progress has been made. It is not enough. Not even if they did one thing wrong (which looks doubtful from the amount of evidence and documents and apologies) Metropolitan Herman and Fr. Paul Kucynda should resign as a matter of stepping out of the way for the sake of integrity and the future of the OCA. This would be so in keeping with starting a new page for the OCA being a "fool for Christ."
Patty Schellbach
#9
Patty Schellbach
on
2007-04-16 17:03
Christ is risen! Truly risen!
Dear Friends --
While I more than share the frustration felt by Mark Stokoe and all of us in the OCA about the continuing lack of progress in all the matters he adduces in this essay, I must take issue with this point:
BQ
'the continuing hesitation to even suspend (let alone defrock) Fr. Kondratick despite incontrovertible evidence of his plundering of Church funds for years'
EQ
There is no such 'incontrovertible evidence'. All we have is an accumulation of insinuations and the lies put forth by Proskauer, Rose at Met. Herman's direction, lies which Abp Job's commissioners apparently believe.
But PR doesn't work for the OCA. They work for MH, and their assigned task is to 'build a firewall around the metropolitan'.
Here I'm quoting Fr Paul Kucynda, who ought to know what he's talking about, close to the throne as he is these days. Yet, MH is playing FrPK like a fiddle, and will betray him (as he does everyone) when the heat is really on. In any case, there are three priests who were in the room a year ago when FrPK said this, and they are willing to attest this under oath, should that be necessary.
PR works for MH, not for the Church, and MH's agenda includes scapegoating Fr Robert Kondratick in order to deflect attention from his own misdeeds and those of his predecessor, Met. Theodosius, whose use of the ADM millions and the fact that these funds weren't tracked through the OCA's usual accounting records form the basis for Pdn Eric Wheeler's protest. Duly noted -- and not FrRK's fault.
If anybody ought to be deposed (not 'defrocked' -- please file that word with 'chasuble') from the priesthood, It's MH, not FrRK.
Please note that FrRK's dismissal thirteen months ago has not ameliorated our situation. In fact, it's become much worse since then. The only constant figure through all of this is MH, who consistently tries to deflect attention from himself, his income, his administration of affairs on holy Mt Pokonos, his violation of our ancient canons and of our OCA Statute.
Were the dismissed FrRK the problem, we'd be at least a little better off by now, but we're not, because MH is still in charge. Or at least thinks he is, his papalistic pretensions to universal jurisdiction being what they are.
Please, friends, let's wake up and realize that MH is the fox who's contrived to be left guarding the hen house!
Peace and blessings of the Lord's resurrection to all.
Monk James
Dear Friends --
While I more than share the frustration felt by Mark Stokoe and all of us in the OCA about the continuing lack of progress in all the matters he adduces in this essay, I must take issue with this point:
BQ
'the continuing hesitation to even suspend (let alone defrock) Fr. Kondratick despite incontrovertible evidence of his plundering of Church funds for years'
EQ
There is no such 'incontrovertible evidence'. All we have is an accumulation of insinuations and the lies put forth by Proskauer, Rose at Met. Herman's direction, lies which Abp Job's commissioners apparently believe.
But PR doesn't work for the OCA. They work for MH, and their assigned task is to 'build a firewall around the metropolitan'.
Here I'm quoting Fr Paul Kucynda, who ought to know what he's talking about, close to the throne as he is these days. Yet, MH is playing FrPK like a fiddle, and will betray him (as he does everyone) when the heat is really on. In any case, there are three priests who were in the room a year ago when FrPK said this, and they are willing to attest this under oath, should that be necessary.
PR works for MH, not for the Church, and MH's agenda includes scapegoating Fr Robert Kondratick in order to deflect attention from his own misdeeds and those of his predecessor, Met. Theodosius, whose use of the ADM millions and the fact that these funds weren't tracked through the OCA's usual accounting records form the basis for Pdn Eric Wheeler's protest. Duly noted -- and not FrRK's fault.
If anybody ought to be deposed (not 'defrocked' -- please file that word with 'chasuble') from the priesthood, It's MH, not FrRK.
Please note that FrRK's dismissal thirteen months ago has not ameliorated our situation. In fact, it's become much worse since then. The only constant figure through all of this is MH, who consistently tries to deflect attention from himself, his income, his administration of affairs on holy Mt Pokonos, his violation of our ancient canons and of our OCA Statute.
Were the dismissed FrRK the problem, we'd be at least a little better off by now, but we're not, because MH is still in charge. Or at least thinks he is, his papalistic pretensions to universal jurisdiction being what they are.
Please, friends, let's wake up and realize that MH is the fox who's contrived to be left guarding the hen house!
Peace and blessings of the Lord's resurrection to all.
Monk James
#10
Monk James
on
2007-04-16 17:52
That would seem to be the problem. Instead of being spiritual leaders, who are growing in union with Christ, they are mired in the world.
I would like for MH to explain how he is leading his flock to salvation...
I would like for MH to explain how he is leading his flock to salvation...
#11
Name withheld
on
2007-04-16 18:21
Do not be too surprised at the priest's gloom.
What did the Apostles do during the first Bright Week? They hid in the upper room, afraid. Christ knew their weakness and came to reassure them, and he appeared again when St. Thomas persisted in his doubt. It took until Pentecost for the Apostles to really get going.
A line from the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom may be in order:
"O death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?"
What did the Apostles do during the first Bright Week? They hid in the upper room, afraid. Christ knew their weakness and came to reassure them, and he appeared again when St. Thomas persisted in his doubt. It took until Pentecost for the Apostles to really get going.
A line from the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom may be in order:
"O death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?"
#12
Wayne Matthew Syvinski
on
2007-04-16 23:58
I have the distinct impression, foolish though it may be, that God will not hold me accountable for the results, but rather my faithfulness and effort to follow Him. Is that not the teaching of Christ? We labor, but God provides the harvest?
Moreover, if our Church will not follow Christ's commandments, and give to the poor, feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, heal the sick, care for widows and orphans -- then our duty as followers of Christ is to find other ways to do this ministry.
One may take the statement of our Lord in Luke 10:7 to indicate we are to support the needs of those who serve. Yet, we seem to be underwriting lifestyles that neither ourselves nor our priests can hope to attain.
In Matthew 10:10, our Lord tells the Apostles (and thus, our Bishops) to take only themselves for their ministry -- not gold, nor even a wallet. Not even two cloaks.
So, we should (foolish though we be) follow the commandments of our Lord.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
Moreover, if our Church will not follow Christ's commandments, and give to the poor, feed the hungry, visit the imprisoned, heal the sick, care for widows and orphans -- then our duty as followers of Christ is to find other ways to do this ministry.
One may take the statement of our Lord in Luke 10:7 to indicate we are to support the needs of those who serve. Yet, we seem to be underwriting lifestyles that neither ourselves nor our priests can hope to attain.
In Matthew 10:10, our Lord tells the Apostles (and thus, our Bishops) to take only themselves for their ministry -- not gold, nor even a wallet. Not even two cloaks.
So, we should (foolish though we be) follow the commandments of our Lord.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
#13
Marty Watt
on
2007-04-17 08:28
When lawyers speak for Bishops and the only agenda for this seemingly endless firewalling is the statute of limitation... we all participate in a not so suttle circumlocusion of the western fallenness of Roma dogma.... Not the Eastern Orthodox Chruch. Papacy is a temptation which is fitting to the culture we find our faith engolfed in. The blackmail of Bishops and lowly faithful is certainly the history of the western church as the protestants drum. The Orthodox faith, especially the Russian heretage, will reach the threshold of a simple principal, as Russia has repeatidly demonstrated... and sacrifice all they posses for the hope of a better Church tomorrow for the nest generations. Podvig... is mysterious and certainly battle like, fatalistic in worldly sacrifice.
Purification is not the goal... discernment is. Most beloved Bishops and Metropolitan Herman... we are crying such tears and beating our chests out of love and caring.... come back to us and be our shepards in Christ by His example. Do not seek the defence of men. Even Orthodox lawyers ... do not listen even to them.... but abandon all worldly cares and show us how to be Saints in this life.
a wretched man, theodore
Purification is not the goal... discernment is. Most beloved Bishops and Metropolitan Herman... we are crying such tears and beating our chests out of love and caring.... come back to us and be our shepards in Christ by His example. Do not seek the defence of men. Even Orthodox lawyers ... do not listen even to them.... but abandon all worldly cares and show us how to be Saints in this life.
a wretched man, theodore
#14
Theodore Short
on
2007-04-17 08:29
And it is our obligation to place controls on Metropolitan HERMAN (and any future hierarch) to ensure they cannot utilize the coffers of the Church as a personal purse.
This is exactly the purpose of maintaining a good system of internal control. When such a system is in place, people with access to funds are protected from such allegations. If such controls had been in place throughout the history of the OCA, Archpriest Rodion would not stand accused (but not convicted) of misappropriation of funds.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
This is exactly the purpose of maintaining a good system of internal control. When such a system is in place, people with access to funds are protected from such allegations. If such controls had been in place throughout the history of the OCA, Archpriest Rodion would not stand accused (but not convicted) of misappropriation of funds.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
#15
Marty Watt
on
2007-04-17 08:34
.
Withholding all OCA donations (temporarily), especially those to your local parish, may help the cause.
There are still too many (Orthodox people without internet access) and they must be made aware of what is going on. We have to get the parishioners attention.
I am spending my donations for copies of the web site articles and postage for mailing them to (Orthodox people without internet access).
Spreading “the word”. Something others may want to consider doing. If enough of us do, we may make a difference. There have been many excellent articles published, like Greg Nescott’s, Wayne Tatusko’s, Mark Stokoe’s, and too many others to mention here.
Stopping the money and informing the parishioners is the only thing that will work.
Everyone reading the web site knows what is going on. We have to reach the parishioners!!!
Preaching to the CHOIR is not helping.
Ande
Withholding all OCA donations (temporarily), especially those to your local parish, may help the cause.
There are still too many (Orthodox people without internet access) and they must be made aware of what is going on. We have to get the parishioners attention.
I am spending my donations for copies of the web site articles and postage for mailing them to (Orthodox people without internet access).
Spreading “the word”. Something others may want to consider doing. If enough of us do, we may make a difference. There have been many excellent articles published, like Greg Nescott’s, Wayne Tatusko’s, Mark Stokoe’s, and too many others to mention here.
Stopping the money and informing the parishioners is the only thing that will work.
Everyone reading the web site knows what is going on. We have to reach the parishioners!!!
Preaching to the CHOIR is not helping.
Ande
#16
Ande
on
2007-04-17 09:02
Okay, so we may be fools. Fools for Christ's sake is a title, but let's stop being fools in the world! The priest is right - "What makes us think that things will truly change under the same continuing circumstances?" So, let's change the circumstances.
I have said before, and I will say again: Let us enlist one of the member of the MC or the Holy Synod, to go on behalf of the Church or on their own cognizance, to the secular authorities, be that the IRS or the FBI, or better yet an appropriate court in the State of New York, and file for an injunction against MH from firing and/or transfering priests, and present the full dossier as we have it (various reports, PK findings, minutes of various meetings, etc), and put an end to MH's continuing ability to operate - and therefore to punish people - the OCA as the "administrative head of the Church." Many in the OCA think of us a simply a church, but we are also a recongized, duly-organized entity in the secular world; as such, the People have given the OCA a free ride as far as taxation goes; therefore, certain responsibilities apply, and it's up to the secular athorities to ensure that the various rules and procedures under which the OCA as an entity was formed, are followed. Only once MH cannot termniate, defrock, transfer, etc, any church official, priest, bishop, etc, can he be called to task by those who KNOW what happened, in a court of law, according to secular rules (which presumably in this country, are fair). After that, the Holy Synod can deliberate the ecclesiatical issues.
Let's not continue to go on "complaining" as we have. Let us ACT! Complaining is not seemly, nor is it effective. There are too many people in the Americas who've not heard of Orthodoxy, and too many all over the world that need the OCA to be reaching out to them, not looking inward at ourselves, or over our shoulders at our "leadership."
I have said before, and I will say again: Let us enlist one of the member of the MC or the Holy Synod, to go on behalf of the Church or on their own cognizance, to the secular authorities, be that the IRS or the FBI, or better yet an appropriate court in the State of New York, and file for an injunction against MH from firing and/or transfering priests, and present the full dossier as we have it (various reports, PK findings, minutes of various meetings, etc), and put an end to MH's continuing ability to operate - and therefore to punish people - the OCA as the "administrative head of the Church." Many in the OCA think of us a simply a church, but we are also a recongized, duly-organized entity in the secular world; as such, the People have given the OCA a free ride as far as taxation goes; therefore, certain responsibilities apply, and it's up to the secular athorities to ensure that the various rules and procedures under which the OCA as an entity was formed, are followed. Only once MH cannot termniate, defrock, transfer, etc, any church official, priest, bishop, etc, can he be called to task by those who KNOW what happened, in a court of law, according to secular rules (which presumably in this country, are fair). After that, the Holy Synod can deliberate the ecclesiatical issues.
Let's not continue to go on "complaining" as we have. Let us ACT! Complaining is not seemly, nor is it effective. There are too many people in the Americas who've not heard of Orthodoxy, and too many all over the world that need the OCA to be reaching out to them, not looking inward at ourselves, or over our shoulders at our "leadership."
#17
Committed Convert
on
2007-04-17 10:45
Monk James,
Your continued insistance that Fr. Kondratick has done nothing wrong is ridiculous and insults the inteligence of many people.
I think it's time to once and for all heed the advice given you many months ago under this platform by Gregg Nescott, to stop embarassing yourself already.
Your posts are getting old and lack credibility. Besides, they are simply NOT true!
Respectfully,
Michael Geeza
Your continued insistance that Fr. Kondratick has done nothing wrong is ridiculous and insults the inteligence of many people.
I think it's time to once and for all heed the advice given you many months ago under this platform by Gregg Nescott, to stop embarassing yourself already.
Your posts are getting old and lack credibility. Besides, they are simply NOT true!
Respectfully,
Michael Geeza
#18
Michael Geeza
on
2007-04-17 14:05
Mark,
If the MC has voted to release the report of the Special Commision, who is holding this up?
Also, do you know of any upcoming meetings within the OCA for the Synod or MC?
Thanks,
Patty Schellbach
(Editor's Note:
A) The Metropolitan and Synod of Bishops.
B) The MC will meet in the second of June. The Synod will meet again this Autumn. )
If the MC has voted to release the report of the Special Commision, who is holding this up?
Also, do you know of any upcoming meetings within the OCA for the Synod or MC?
Thanks,
Patty Schellbach
(Editor's Note:
A) The Metropolitan and Synod of Bishops.
B) The MC will meet in the second of June. The Synod will meet again this Autumn. )
#19
Patty Schellbach
on
2007-04-17 18:05
Since we're dealing with two different issues, that being a Federal criminal investigation, as well as Ecclesiastical matters, it's better to put them in their proper perspectives.
Federal investigations are very thorough, and take time. If and when the United States Government feels it has sufficient evidence, then indictments will be handed down. They don't need anyone anyone to present them with evidence, they will subpoena what they need and take it. Any one who is involved in wrong doing, whether it be directly, or by obstruction of justice, or through conspiracy, will be held accountable. Don't think for one minute that because you don't hear about investigations they're not ongoing. The wheels of Federal justice grind slowly and quietly.
Should indictments be handed down, then it doesn't matter if the guilty party is within the ranks of the clergy or flipping burgers for a living, so suspensions or depositions will not be a factor.
Federal investigations are very thorough, and take time. If and when the United States Government feels it has sufficient evidence, then indictments will be handed down. They don't need anyone anyone to present them with evidence, they will subpoena what they need and take it. Any one who is involved in wrong doing, whether it be directly, or by obstruction of justice, or through conspiracy, will be held accountable. Don't think for one minute that because you don't hear about investigations they're not ongoing. The wheels of Federal justice grind slowly and quietly.
Should indictments be handed down, then it doesn't matter if the guilty party is within the ranks of the clergy or flipping burgers for a living, so suspensions or depositions will not be a factor.
#20
Anonymous
on
2007-04-18 07:40
I find myself in the strange and ackward position of agreeing with everything you have to say, except for your continuing and pathetic attempt to exonerate Fr. Kondratick from any responsibility for pillaging our Church. I guess its the mirror image of your "problems" with Mark's editorial.
At this stage, with the evidence at hand, it can only be a case of invincible ignorance (to use a Latin term I'm sure you will enjoy) or utter servitude to Fr. Kondratick's cause at the cost of following Christ, to suggest that there is no "incontrovertible evidence" of his involvement in the scandal. It may be an open question as to the extent or degree of responsibility he bears, but hardly credible to claim that he is just an innocent victim of a PR smear campaign.
I distinquish between your claims and the pleas of others for compassion and due process. Unfortunately, your valid points get overwhelmed by your sycophanic defense of the indefensible.
KRT
At this stage, with the evidence at hand, it can only be a case of invincible ignorance (to use a Latin term I'm sure you will enjoy) or utter servitude to Fr. Kondratick's cause at the cost of following Christ, to suggest that there is no "incontrovertible evidence" of his involvement in the scandal. It may be an open question as to the extent or degree of responsibility he bears, but hardly credible to claim that he is just an innocent victim of a PR smear campaign.
I distinquish between your claims and the pleas of others for compassion and due process. Unfortunately, your valid points get overwhelmed by your sycophanic defense of the indefensible.
KRT
#21
Kenneth R. Tobin
on
2007-04-18 11:20
Yes, some did shrink.
It is the woman who ran out to shout the news.
I join them.
Christ is Risen!
Matushka Carol
It is the woman who ran out to shout the news.
I join them.
Christ is Risen!
Matushka Carol
#22
Anonymous
on
2007-04-18 19:18
The church in Clayton is the place I credit for my Orthodox upbringing. Thank you to Frs. Bobosh, Memorich, and now Wojcik. There are a few more, I remember their faces as I was young, not there names.
I originally did not support Clayton's call for the resignation of the Metropolitan and would still hesitate to do so today as disappointed as I may be in him. I tried to give the Metropolitan the benefit of the doubt. I felt Clayton had gone over the proverbial top in its earlier calls for change.
After Nescott was banned from the Council for oversharing, it became vividly clear that our hierarchs are not interested in justice. A priest can practice or participate (giving Fr. Kondratick and others the benefit of the doubt) in wrongdoing for years, maybe ten years, but a member of the laity makes a single mistake of being overly honest and he is no longer welcome to participate, and is condemned by the entire Synod. hypocrites
This is beyond odd people....we need to realize our hierarchs behavior is bizarre...they need to realize its bizarre or we are in trouble... Preach the Word of God to them.
In my last postings, I have been very, very frustrated in the hierarchy and even Fr. Bobosh for lack of action. I have personally become disappointed in the very Gospels these men preach, the Gospels I have learned to love.
The other day I chanced onto an atheist website with the theme that God is just in our vivid human imaginations and the teachings in the Bible are all wrong, written by men that wish to hold onto false power through their writings. The website promotes a lot of Old Testament writings that condone beating slaves and women. I ended up there searching Bible verses about dishonest priests.
Malachi suggests that our priests need to practice the highest justice amongst themselves. This doesn't seem to be happening, or rather, it is not. Our hierarchy is making the atheists commentary valid, how sad.
I encourage our hierarchs and priests to read the verses in Malachi 2:9 and truly ask themselves if they have demanded the same justice from priests as from people like Nescott. The answers are simple, vivid, and clear. NO
Clayton's call at this juncture is spot on. No business would survive practicing as the OCA has, and this needs to be told to them.
Thank you my brothers and sisters in Christ in Clayton, for keeping me in the flock of the faithful, for preaching the word of Malachi to the deaf. Thank you my brother for giving me a forum to speak these things that are on my mind, even when the powerful seek to condemn such speech. Thank you Clayton parish for calling for honorable, attainable goals in your quest for justice among our priests and hierarchs, rather than unachievable ultimatums.
Bless you that hear my prayer, for it is one that all can hear. The hierarchy could turn everything around by embracing this website, developing a clear disclosure policy, reinstating Nescott, thanking Wheeler, following the teachings of Malachi. They have every opportunity available to them and a flock of loving and forgiving people.
Clayton's gesture is one of love.
What will the hierarchy do?
I originally did not support Clayton's call for the resignation of the Metropolitan and would still hesitate to do so today as disappointed as I may be in him. I tried to give the Metropolitan the benefit of the doubt. I felt Clayton had gone over the proverbial top in its earlier calls for change.
After Nescott was banned from the Council for oversharing, it became vividly clear that our hierarchs are not interested in justice. A priest can practice or participate (giving Fr. Kondratick and others the benefit of the doubt) in wrongdoing for years, maybe ten years, but a member of the laity makes a single mistake of being overly honest and he is no longer welcome to participate, and is condemned by the entire Synod. hypocrites
This is beyond odd people....we need to realize our hierarchs behavior is bizarre...they need to realize its bizarre or we are in trouble... Preach the Word of God to them.
In my last postings, I have been very, very frustrated in the hierarchy and even Fr. Bobosh for lack of action. I have personally become disappointed in the very Gospels these men preach, the Gospels I have learned to love.
The other day I chanced onto an atheist website with the theme that God is just in our vivid human imaginations and the teachings in the Bible are all wrong, written by men that wish to hold onto false power through their writings. The website promotes a lot of Old Testament writings that condone beating slaves and women. I ended up there searching Bible verses about dishonest priests.
Malachi suggests that our priests need to practice the highest justice amongst themselves. This doesn't seem to be happening, or rather, it is not. Our hierarchy is making the atheists commentary valid, how sad.
I encourage our hierarchs and priests to read the verses in Malachi 2:9 and truly ask themselves if they have demanded the same justice from priests as from people like Nescott. The answers are simple, vivid, and clear. NO
Clayton's call at this juncture is spot on. No business would survive practicing as the OCA has, and this needs to be told to them.
Thank you my brothers and sisters in Christ in Clayton, for keeping me in the flock of the faithful, for preaching the word of Malachi to the deaf. Thank you my brother for giving me a forum to speak these things that are on my mind, even when the powerful seek to condemn such speech. Thank you Clayton parish for calling for honorable, attainable goals in your quest for justice among our priests and hierarchs, rather than unachievable ultimatums.
Bless you that hear my prayer, for it is one that all can hear. The hierarchy could turn everything around by embracing this website, developing a clear disclosure policy, reinstating Nescott, thanking Wheeler, following the teachings of Malachi. They have every opportunity available to them and a flock of loving and forgiving people.
Clayton's gesture is one of love.
What will the hierarchy do?
#23
Daniel E. Fall
on
2007-04-18 19:27
Well said Marty. Good practice protects good people from mistakes, errors and omissions as well as protects the body corporate from the unscrupulous. The sooner MH realizes this (assuming he even has an inclination to, which seems doubtful at this point) the quicker he would realize that his rigid, medieval visions of power and authority could give way to more Christian views of leadership founded in love. Lets face it, many medieval notions of leadership are fundamentally flawed and do not deserve repetition under the banner of Tradition. The Holy Spirit had nothing to do with them.
#24
Name withheld
on
2007-04-18 20:11
The effort to set aright the OCA has ground to a halt at the doorstep of the Metropolitan and the Synod of Bishops. Some parishes in the OCA are awakening from their passive stupor and are showing a willingness to care enough about the Church to confront both what is wrong with the Church as well as to confront the wrongdoers. Parishes are showing by their action - the withholding of the assessment - that they care about the OCA and in love want the OCA to overcome its sinful, crippling corruption. Still the Metropolitan and Synod of Bishops are slow to act or even react to the corruption which has sickened the Church. While those who perpetuated lying and theft, bankrupting the church and stealing from orphans and widows go free, the bishops were quickly censure a man who spoke the truth. It seems more obvious than ever that Metropolitan Herman by blocking the release of the reports of the Special Commission and Proskauer-Rose is in fact protecting himself. Metropolitan Council - since we have do-nothing bishops it is time for you to take responsibility for the financial welfare of the church and to eliminate the OCA stipend for all the bishops. Then you will see how fast they can act. Until the Metropolitan and the Synod deal with the culprits and release ALL of the investigative reports, not only should parishes stop paying the assessment, the Metropolitan Council should for the good of the church eliminate the stipend for all bishops. The laborer deserves his wages (Luke 10:7), but let him who won't work not eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). It is more than obvious that our bishops are not willing to do for the church that which only bishops can do. So let them find other employment for a living - something which many of their priests have to do and which is normal for the laity to do.
#25
An Archpriest
on
2007-04-19 15:24
Hello Subdeacon John Martin.
Christ is Risen!
I agree with you that "it is our obligation to place controls on Metropolitan HERMAN (and any future hierarch)". I have a suggestion to facilitate your suggestion.
The OCA needs at least one parish (according to Article XIII Section I) to write a proposal to amend Article IV - Metropolitan, by adding "Section 5 - Removal of Metropolitan". In this section, it could be proposed that a metropolitan could be removed by two-thirds vote by the total membership in attendance at the AAC.
We have some very eloquent writers on this site. Perhaps someone could write this proposal and post it. Although we only need one church to make the proposal, it would make more of an impression if several churches made the proposal.
Juliana
Christ is Risen!
I agree with you that "it is our obligation to place controls on Metropolitan HERMAN (and any future hierarch)". I have a suggestion to facilitate your suggestion.
The OCA needs at least one parish (according to Article XIII Section I) to write a proposal to amend Article IV - Metropolitan, by adding "Section 5 - Removal of Metropolitan". In this section, it could be proposed that a metropolitan could be removed by two-thirds vote by the total membership in attendance at the AAC.
We have some very eloquent writers on this site. Perhaps someone could write this proposal and post it. Although we only need one church to make the proposal, it would make more of an impression if several churches made the proposal.
Juliana
#26
Anonymous
on
2007-04-19 16:04
Mr. Stokoe, is there still something wrong with my post? I asked an honest question, I wasn't attacking anyone, just asking the gentleman if he had hard evidence for his indirect incriminations of the priest in question.
(Editor's note: please send me a valid email address so I may respond to you personally.)
(Editor's note: please send me a valid email address so I may respond to you personally.)
#27
Apostolos
on
2007-04-20 10:28
Your thought may have merit, however I'd prefer an alternative (or perhaps complimentary) suggestion:
There needs to be established a professional internal audit function, reporting findings to the Metropolitan Council. The OCA needs to establish this position in harmony with the professional standards of the Institute of Internal Auditors, to ensure both professionalism and independence.
If the OCA could make and implement only one change, this would be the one I'd recommend.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
There needs to be established a professional internal audit function, reporting findings to the Metropolitan Council. The OCA needs to establish this position in harmony with the professional standards of the Institute of Internal Auditors, to ensure both professionalism and independence.
If the OCA could make and implement only one change, this would be the one I'd recommend.
Sdn. John Martin Watt
Martin D. Watt, CPA (Inactive)
#28
Marty Watt
on
2007-04-21 12:09
The author does not allow comments to this entry
Calendar
|
May '13 | |||||
| Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | ||
| 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |
| 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 |
| 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 |
| 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | ||