Monday, February 4. 2008
Your thoughts on the situation of the OCA, on Rod Dreher's points, or on Phil Lawler's reflections as they pertain to Orthodoxy, are welcome.
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God preserve a brave man from harsh retribution!
#1 Benjamin on 2008-02-04 11:13
#2 Timothy Capps, Esq. on 2008-02-04 12:20
I sent the following email message to my priest after reading your latest post:
" I just finished reading the newest article regarding bishops on the ocanews web site. The authors are not only seeing the elephants in the room but have addressed several of them. There is one section that gives me great pause:
" The Apostles were poor, uneducated and provincial, yet their efforts brought the Gospel to every nation on earth. Today, in comfortable suburbs, just down the street from the parish church,one can readily find people who, quite literally have never heard the Gospel".
" When the church agencies begin to serve earthly aims, they become truly cancerous. They may grow rapidly and absorb tremendous amounts of energy....and they steadily drain real spiritual strength away from the Church. And, in any case, the accumulation of earthly resources is pointless, that battle is already lost".
This is written about the Roman Catholic Church but it is about us as well. If the problems are not acknowledged and dealt with,we are only kidding ourselves and marking time until our retirements, moving on or our own deaths. This could have been over many months ago if not for cover ups and lies on top of lies told by men and I know the operative word here is " men " that I am supposed to have love and respect for, and to trust that they are leading me on the right path. Right now, I think we are all " lost" on that path. I watch you raise you arms every Sunday, recite " O Heavenly King : and wonder if the Holy Spirit will ever abide in us and cleanse us from our impurities let alone save our souls !
This scandal has lasted way too long. A Fortune 500 company would have been toast by now. There is no longer any excuse for ALL jursdictions not to speak up and put an end to it. The Bishops don't feel the need to do anything because they are " Bishops " and have a sense of entitlement. Can you imagine what an ACC would be like with people who haven't a clue about what been going on these past 2+ years? They'll think it's another OCA lovefest and be furious at being kept in the dark by their Bishop not to mention their pastor.
Soon another Great Lent will start and we are continuing on the road to a " long defeat". The Bulgarians, Romanians and Albanians might not feel this is " their " fight but rest assured.....we will all suffer the consequences regardless of jurisdiction.
Not only for the " good of the Church " but for the " love of our Church " we need to resolve the issues before us as unseemly as they may be. "
Instead of thinking we can " clean " this up from the top down, I think it's time to work our way " up " the chain of command. Our heirarchy has become very comfortable on the pedestals we have put them on and we have ourselves to blame for that. Many do not seem to wear their " crowns " very well as a news reporter called a Greek Bishop's mitre last week when it was stolen from his car. Maybe the reporter did use the right word !
Write to your priest, your Bishop. Don't get a reply, send it again. This has dragged on way too long. It seems it took a lot less time for Our Lord to learn of His fate !
And we continue to recite, " O Heavenly King " .
#3 Anonymous on 2008-02-04 13:13
Just read Rod Dreher, marvelous!
It is clear these bishops do not believe in God.
#4 Zippo on 2008-02-04 13:19
Great piece, full of wisdom and discernment. A strong dose of reality that's very much needed in the OCA.
It's very clear that all of the following warnings and wisdom from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ seem completely lost on the administration in Syosset, the Metropolitan, and a vast majority of the bishops in the OCA Synod:
"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." (Matthew 16:24)
"If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all." (Mark 9:35)
But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. "Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. "And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave; "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
"But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Matthew 23:11-12)
Now there was also a dispute among them, as to which of them should be considered the greatest. And He said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called 'benefactors.' "But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. "For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves." (Luke 22:24-28)
"You call me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. "If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. "For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. "Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. "If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them." (John 13:13-17)
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." (John 10:11-16)
The LOGOS through the Scriptures enlightens the rational sheep and helps them recognize and know their true shepherds and unmask and flee from the wolves destroying, abusing, and devouring the flock.
Glory to IC XC!
First off, let me apologize for the length of this post. Second, let me apologize for potentially adding head-ache opportunities to my friend and beloved Archbishop. I’m sure that some of his antagonists will blame him for my comments and my freedom to say them. But, in Orthodoxy, we “stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free” (Gal. 5:1).
Now, on with the screed…
It is frightening to see our own OCA described in the comments about the RCC. This situation is stupid! I do not say this from simple frustration. Rather, the description is apt. We know how to deal with, fix, and overcome the problems in the OCA. Yet, what does the Synod and its primate do to deal with it? For the most part, it’s the classic ostrich approach.
It could be comical if it weren’t so evil. I like to define humor or funny as being when truth kisses absurdity. But, in the OCA, we have absurdity smothering truth, and it is neither funny nor humorous. It’s evil; and evil is absurdity at the expense of truth. And this is just what some of our hierarchs have been practicing. May I say that? Is that impolite? impolitic? Ah, but so what if it is; it’s true and needs to be said. “If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly…”
One cannot lie for the good of the Church. Such things are not of God. To the contrary, the devil “is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44). Can you believe what I just said?? I needed to point out that it’s bad to lie! Every child in the world has mastered that lesson by the first grade, yet it seems lost on some Teachers of the Faith. Yikes! What a day in which we live. We’d better redeem the time, folks, for these days surely are evil (Eph. 5:16), but on the plus side, it’s obvious and no longer a secretive, hidden evil.
Now, we have this newest Mission Appeal from the Met. saying that he knows “that a great deal of the hurt and anger that our Church is dealing with now is directly related to the misappropriation of Church-wide appeal funds that has occurred in the past. I want to assure you that the Central Administration now has personnel and business procedures in place that will not allow such financial mismanagement to happen again. All Mission Appeal donations are restricted funds and will be used” only for that purpose.
Again I see truth being smothered by absurdity. “That has occurred in the past”? Well, these things didn’t just “occur” on their own, you know. Identifiable persons were responsible. And it wasn’t RSK all by his lonesome. Didn’t our Metropolitan himself allow and order funds to be misdirected? And now he says that personnel are in place who will not allow it to happen again. But, Your Beatitude, you are still there! We still need that one further personnel change. (No, I don’t hate you, Your Beatitude. I offer heart-felt prayers for you every day. But, as Fr. Lawrence Farley pointed out in his recent reflection, a hierarch needs to have moral authority and credibility. And, no offense, but, Your Beatitude, you do not have that.)
And “a great deal of the hurt and anger that our Church is dealing with now” is about far, far more than money being misspent in years past. It’s at least as much about the ongoing C.Y.A. and story changes.
• I fired Fr. Robert because… (Which is the current story? I’ve lost track.)
• I can’t release the P.R. report because… the SIC investigation is ongoing? the RSK ecclesiastical trial is coming up? we expect RSK to appeal to the Synod? the RSK lawsuit is pending?
There were prior and intervening times when there were no such excuses, and the report still was not released.
• Et cetera ad nauseam.
As Judge Judy put it, don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
No, in our humble mission, we are supporting OCMC instead.
Rev. Bartholomew Wojcik
St. Nicholas Mission Church
#6 Anonymous on 2008-02-04 17:50
Thank you Rod and Phil:
Rod Dreher and Phil Lawler care about God's Kingdom on Earth, not men's kingdom on earth.
In terms of how power and control have been abused in the church, this IS refreshing.
It seems to me that Jesus BENT OVER BACKWARDS not to be about power and control. He said and did so many things that RESISTED power and control.
Yet so many bishops RUN AWAY with power and control, as if there were no tomorrow. This brings us back to Rod's question and observation as well.
I believe that our present suffering in the OCA will continue until we have much more righted this sad, sad, wrong.
#7 Patty Schellbach on 2008-02-04 18:05
It has been recommended that the entire SOB (Synod of Bishops) resign before the AAC. The "laos" can then decide who they want as their diocese bishop and metropolitan. Of course, + Herman and + Nicolai will be dumped. + Dimitri should be retired and + Job wants to retire. So, where are our next bishops? Do we continue to turn over every rock to find "any" celibate and make them a leader? Isn't this pretty stupid? Many have said, it really is time to turn to married, more stable bishops. In this manner, we could have more bishops administering to smaller territories.
#8 Anon-i-mouse on 2008-02-05 07:11
As an Orthodox Christian you make a bold statement;
“the Orthodox Church in America, my church, is undergoing a huge scandal now centered on the hierarchy -- especially Metropolitan Herman and his coterie at church headquarters. It involves money, mostly, but also -- it has been alleged -- sexual impropriety of some of the players.” I find your approach to this to be misleading in that you are inferring this could be a true statement. No where do you ask where is the proof? I am sure that St. Paul who knew the Old Testament especially (Proverbs 18:8) “Gossip is so tasty—how we love to swallow it!” would have a difficult time appreciating your comments about the Orthodox Church, Metropolitan Herman and the Holy Synod as it is posted by Stokoe and Company. Now if you wanted to learn the real truth go to oca.org and read the material that is there, all of it, and by the way if you have facts then both you and Stokoe and Company should post them in a way that would build up the church. To conclude “guilty by association” and “ no transparency” as the basis for truth holds no weight because this would make our Lord guilty since he knew who would betray him and he allowed it to be so without telling the others until the proper time nor did he tell his disciples or the rest of us all about creation or what heaven is all about.
From one who reads the Bible and also the Fathers and Canons of the Church every day!
(Editor's Note: Nice try anonymous, but it is you who is betrayed by the facts. First get them straight. Every major - and even every minor - financial allegations made on this site has been confirmed by the OCA itself - eventually. Secondly, thsi site has never said the Metropolitan was guilty of anything by association. The Metropolitan's "guilt" is that of both ommission ( turning a blind eye to Kodnratick's misdeeds) and commission ( failing to investigate, hindering investigation, reappointing Kondratick after serious allegations had been evidenced, etc.). Those are not allegations - those are facts, evidenced by documents and statements of the Metropolitan himself.
Finally, the allegations of sexual impropriety have not been made by "Stokoe & Co.", but most notably by Kondratick's defense team, led by the monk James Silver.
I will repeat to you, what I have said many times on this site, and not anonymously. Only the truth will heal this Church, only the truth will end this mess, only the truth will save us. Anything less only perpetuates the lies.)
#9 Anonymous on 2008-02-05 09:33
Thanks Fr. Bartholomew for your honesty and your courage to tell like it is!!!
AXIOS, AXIOS, AXIOS!!!
God bless you and protect you, your family and your parish!
With love in Christ,
#10 Helen O'Sullivan on 2008-02-05 12:40
Many thoughtful comments have been written on this website. We are grateful to the internet and to Mark in order for the laity to have a voice and to be heard. I sincerly hope our Synod of Bishops have access and read this site. The Bishops for too long have lived their hierarchial lives removed from the faithful. The last time a hierarch came to your parish, mission church did the bishop actually spend more than 3 minutes talking with you and your children. Its time to remove the barriers between the Bishop and the people. And its time for the bishops to be truthful, upfront and deal with the scandal in a quick manner. The bishops may be able to hide the truth from the people, but they haven't hidden the truth from Christ. However, I don't think the Bishops can continue to hide the truth from the faithful. We are not the Roman Catholic Church. Our Bishops are not infallible, they are sinful just like the laity. No one is immune from sin. Christ was tempted and chose not to sin (since He is human and divine). Our Synod of Bishops should chose to act now -- not later. Missions are started without the help of Syosset. Instead of sending your mission dollars to Syosset, send it directly to a mission station, or mission (Parish). Names and Address of missions are on diocesan websites. The mission would appreciate and you can be sure that 100% of your donation would be used appropriately.
#11 cshinn on 2008-02-05 12:48
Re: "They may grow rapidly and absorb tremendous amounts of energy."
How does this statement even remotely resemble (or ever resemble) the OCA?
The alleged "growth" of the OCA has always been its greatest self deception.
How many are in the OCA?
"1 million...1.1 million...750000....700000...2 million...27000,,,20000...take your pick."
#12 Anonymous on 2008-02-05 14:10
Terenty Dushkin has been suspended: http://www.oca.org/News.asp?ID=1451&SID=19
Thanks be to God!
#13 josephine on 2008-02-05 14:36
Well, anonymous, you get a couple of style points for staying away from the caps lock key and for refraining from spraying exclamation points like an AK47 on full automatic. On substance, though, the judges, even the East German one, are holding up 2's and 3's. "I find your approach to this to be misleading in that you are inferring this could be a true statement." Are you really denying that the OCA is currently suffering scandal? You do realize that grammatically the "this" to which you are referring is Mr. Dreher's assertion that a scandal exists, and not the truth of the various alleged misdeeds, don't you? Therefore, that what you are really saying is that there is no scandal? I'm going to charitably assume that this is not really what you mean, but that what you are trying to say is that the various allegations of misdeeds are false. The way we settle questions of truth or falsehood is by the presentation of evidence, and not by appeal to authority, which is the logical fallacy you commit (unknowingly, I'm sure) when you refer us to oca.org for the "real truth". I am not aware of any location on that site that provides any explanation at all, (besides "Father Bob did it") let alone the "real truth" for the following unquestioned facts: over a million dollars donated for charitable purposes has been misappropriated; said misappropriation occurred during the terms of both Metropolitans Theodore and Herman; when Protodeacon Eric Wheeler went public with his allegations, the institutional response of the OCA was to deny, evade, excuse and shoot the messenger; serious and credible people have alleged instances of sexual misbehavior perpetrated by the Chancellor of the diocese of Alaska; the bishop of said diocese regularly denies the faithful the Body and Blood of Christ for no valid reason; the same bishop has scandalized the faithful by tonsuring a convicted sex offender to the lower clergy in violation of Holy Tradition and Scripture; the Holy Synod refuses to act against the bishop of Alaska, choosing instead to attack the only one among them who acts as a servant of the servants of God; and, finally, those of the faithful who decry the aforementioned abuses are attacked by Internet warriors who, apparently, are not especially proficient at either reading comprehension or writing, and who also lack the courage to use their names. (That last one pales in comparison to the litany of scandals I have briefly recounted, but, goodness, one gets so very tired of the bravely anonymous who confuse assertion with evidence! Note that I do not include allegations of sexual misdeeds among the hierarchy; assertions by the Kondtratick camp are not, yet, facts.) If, anonymous, you have some real evidence to bring to the table, by all means have at it. Names and dates and, if possible, links. Your move.
#14 Scott Walker on 2008-02-05 14:37
Please forgive my snarky comment about posters who apparently lack reading comprehension and writing skills. I don't like cheap shots, especially when I take them. Mea culpa. Everything else, though, stands as written.
#15 Scott Walker on 2008-02-05 14:57
You are wrong and a spinner of truth and that is why I receive so many phone calls from people saying this very fact. You have one goal and that is power just like Kondratick. You were never for the Hierarchical structure of the church. You accuse the Metropolitan of “turning a blind eye to Kondratick’s misdeeds”. I can assure you anyone who has worked with Metropolitan Herman knows this to be a slanderous statement on your part and one with out any proof. All you would have to do is investigate the people who have worked with Metropolitan Herman. He pulls no punches and that is why he told Fr. Berzonski to explain to the people of the Midwest Diocese the truth. It’s ironic because the new representative from the Midwest Diocese voted not to withhold money and he is doing what Fr. Berzonski failed to do, why? I tell you the truth Fr. Berzonski was trying to dictate what should be done and did not like the fact that perhaps one in authority was acting like Christ acted to Peter “get behind me Satan” and yet Peter understood the love that Christ had for him and I hope one day Fr. Berzonski would be able to understand this. It was neither you nor Wheeler but Metropolitan Herman only after receiving much needed and crucial information and I say again much needed and crucial information that he set in motion the investigation otherwise to this day things would have remained the same. Now on your second point failing to investigate; again I say get your facts right he never reappointed Kondratick to anything. He suspended him and began the proceedings. Do I have to give you a course in law or the canons of the church? Trials take a long time! Look how many years went by and how time consuming it was to get rid of Arius! Or how long it took for Judas to be exposed! I see a much more serious problem and that is from your spinning with out any hard facts about how wrongfully the Metropolitan has handled this situation with out realizing that there are many ways to handle this. I with hundreds of people know and can attest to the fact that the Holy Spirit is indeed in Metropolitan Herman and will not rest until He (the Holy Spirit) has restored the Holy Synod to its rightful place of dignity.
From one who reads the Bible and also the Fathers and Canons of the Church every day!
#16 Anonymous on 2008-02-05 15:56
Thank goodness! After "only" many hundreds of appeals, posts, editorials, comments, new stories and articles, the OCA "leadership" gets it and acts. I guess it takes a full-scale revolt and massive outrage from the laity and quite a few priests to reach a decision as plain and simple as this. God help us!
Hey, anonymous! How about responding to my challenge upthread for a little evidence? Names, dates and, if possible, links? One more time: assertions are not evidence. BTW, I have to admire your mind reading skills: pretty cool how you can, from a distance, discern our host's slavering lust for power, "just like Kondratick". Look up the definition of "projection" as a psychological term and get back to us...once you can find the time to spare from your daily sessions with Fathers, Bible and Canon.
#18 Scott Walker on 2008-02-05 19:23
Wow! Ego is a trait that certainly never goes unnoticed.
I must begin by stating that I agree with you completely in your opening assertion. I am convinved that Herman never turned a blind eye to Kondratick's misdeeds. He was in fact fully aware of them and was even involved in a number of them. The fact is that the Synod knew what was going on: blackmail pay-offs, extravagant parties & hotels, over-generous financial "gifts", misdirection of appropriated funds, etc! Not to even get into the immoral behaviors and "lifestyles", many of which are the cause of financial issues.
You say that trials take a long time. How was it that the Synod figured they could dispose of Bishop Innocent rather quickly, having begun the process of deposition just days prior to his untimely death? He argued with Syosset and the Synod over Alaska money, and we see who won. That got their immediate attention and action. For shame!
Who am I? I am nobody and I am somebody. To the elite hierarchs, and those bottom-feeders who swirl all about them, I am just a lay parishioner, a source for cash and one who is so incredibly beneath them that I must kiss their hand and thank them for the opportunity for allowing me to do so. But to Christ I am somebody, and that is all the recognition I need. It is what I strive for on a daily basis through prayer and the Sacraments.
So read your Bible, read your Fathers, read your Canons...but unless you have humility, and most of all honesty, you and everyone like you will never amount to anything more than a Pharisee.
#19 Anonymous on 2008-02-05 20:43
And this "anonymous" is an actual Christian never mind Orthodox Christian? Proof positive that one can read the Bible, Fathers and Canons of the Church and be absolutely wrong! Truth and justice trump hierarchical every time! The OCA is not very large. Knowing well most of the players on the stage....I'll throw my trust behind +Job/Berzonsky/Bobosh/Grigorieff/Hopkos/Kuchta/Nescott/Plekon/Stokoe/Simerick/Vinogradov/Wheeler/Wojciks & those working for honesty and truthfulness any day! I don't know any "anonymous."
#20 Andrew A. Lukashonak on 2008-02-05 23:05
Monk James has blind faith in RSK, Michael Geeza in PK, and you(anonymous)in MH. Fr. Berzonsky wants the TRUTH as do most the people on this sight. (Thank God for Mark whose made us aware!) I know as a fact if you disagree with MH - you'll be sorry. Thats why the priest in his diocese are so scared! Ask the seminarians at STS! I'm afraid to sign my name for fear of the reprucutions it will have on the priest in my family. Message to MH and Synod "The TRUTH will set you free!"
#21 Anonymous on 2008-02-05 23:49
It doesn't take a genius to realize the way we pick our leaders is dysfunctional. Is Orthodoxy not worth taking the trouble to discern what are core elements of the tradition that have a place in today's world and what are mere atavisms? Where are our long-established American monastaries just bursting with holiness and talent from which we may choose our bishops?
There is no good reason why married clergy should not be bishops. Of course married people can have problems, too, but we needn't ask for trouble.
How exciting it would be to see a real American Orthodoxy, not a faux-Russian copy-cat promoting the latest 19th Century mangement theories. I hate a lot of elements of American culture at least as much as the next person, but there are some things we're pretty darned good at.
Of course that would mean changing a church whose main claim to fame is that it never changes. And there are a lot of things that shouldn't be changed. Certainly the message and the spirit, and many of the things that make us identifiable as "Orthodox." But are "monastic" bishops one of these things? Are things set up so that we are getting the best and brightest as our Orthodox bishops? Would the church benefit from having a much deeper pool of talent?
Who wants to argue the side that "monastic" bishops are central to orthodoxy and that excluding married clergy is producing the best bishops we can have for America?
A sufficient rebuttal would probably be "seriously?"
#22 Timothy Capps, Esq. on 2008-02-06 00:44
Dear Anonymous #12,
I must say that you in particular must be a coward to sign your posts anonymously. Since you support the current power structure, what possibly could fear by revealing your identity. I'm glad you read the Bible, the Fathers and Canons every day. It obviously has not done you much good in discerning the truth. I ask you a simple question, since you are so steeped in the Gospel, who is the author of confusion? You bring no new information to the table, you slander good men who have steadfastly stood by the facts and you don't have the guts to sign your name. Come on Anonymous, I know you can muster the courage!
#23 Rich on 2008-02-06 09:10
Are you saying that +Herman and the Holy Spirit ARE ONE! Please explain. I understand that when one is anointed with the holy chrism after baptism, they are given the seal of the Holy Spirit. They are blessed with His divine gifts. Those gifts are given to help the person to grow into his new life and guide him into all TRUTH. Am I missing something here?
#24 Puzzled Lizzie on 2008-02-06 09:19
Dear Fr Bart: I discovered, recently, to my dismay, that OCMC posts no sort of financial information on their web site. Nor is there any financial information on the SCOBA web site about any of its agencies (except for IOCC, which is a qualified 501c(3) organization with the IRS, and does report its financial activities).
Perhaps my fears are misguided, but I just cant support any charity that doesn't give out any financial information.
#25 Michael Strelka on 2008-02-06 10:36
1. The Diocese of the Midwest Diocesan Council, at its November meeting, voted unanimously to withhold assessments. That would seem to include the new MC delegate.
2. +Herman reappointed Kondratick as Chancellor after becoming Metropolitan in 2002.
3. +Herman approved the taking of money from widows and orphans to pay for overspending the budget.
4. +Herman, along with all the Synod, save Job, rejected any investigation into the allegations, until the pressure from this web site forced him to.
Woe to you, scribe and pharisee, hypocrite. You quote Canon Law, and you ignore the sufferings of widows and orphans (not to mention us peasants).
#26 Michael Strelka on 2008-02-06 11:04
The news that the bishop of Alaska plans to pursue his vendetta against Bishop Job is the true measure of our spiritual leaders And that anonymous speaks for many of the laity is a sign that the corruption seeps downward to confuse and disorient those who would like to respect the Bishops, but can only do so by rejecting the truth. Alice Carter
#27 alice carter on 2008-02-06 11:30
There is no need for prayers for Rod from retribution. He is a dedicated Orthodox Christian, respected member of the Diocese of the South and St Seraphim Cathedral in Dallas and beloved of Archbishop Dmitri.
#28 Anonymous on 2008-02-06 12:26
if you want to stay within the communion of world wide orthodoxy you can't circumvent the canons.only a pan orthodox synod could decide such questions as married episcopate.
#29 Anonymous on 2008-02-06 13:55
"If I must speak the truth, I feel disposed to shun every synod of bishops, because I have never seen a synod that came to a happy end. They do not solve problems, they increase them! There is always rivarly there and ambitions which soon gain mastery over all reason. I am not exaggerating. If a man tries to act as mediator, he will likely to draw fire on himself than to reconcile the parties. Accordingly, I have retired to a private life and consider tranquility the only secure way of living." (Gregory of Nazianzus)
#30 Food for thought on 2008-02-06 16:24
My dear Puzzled Lizzie,
Your point is well taken to prove my point: Read Acts 6:3, and also it is found in the Gospel of John, though I will not tell you where so that you may be moved by the Holy Spirit with a desire to search the Orthodox Study Bible. As usual everything anyone posts that is not in line with the sculptures of this website is deemed wrong and in error. (“He that has ears to hear let him hear”)
I am not anonymous: God knows those who read the Bible, those who study the Fathers of the Church and also those who condemn the Hierarchs by their own earthly reasoning’s. Yet they do not quite understand the 2 greatest commandments of all time.
#31 Anonymous on 2008-02-06 19:26
REMEMBER THIS IS A "GOSSIP WEBSITE" THE AUTHOR ALONG WITH THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NO POWER! "O" MOST OF THE TIME THEY HAVE NO FACTS AGAIN "O" PLEASE NOTE THIS WEBSITE IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT ONLY! AND THAT'S THE REST OF THE STORY! GOOD DAY! (PAUL HARVEY)
#32 Anonymous on 2008-02-06 19:33
I must ask you, where are the documents?
All of this has been spun by an alleged report, who no one has seen. Some people just do not get it, HERMAN will do and say whatever it takes in the moment. His lies have been published over and over. He says one thing, then does and says another. When you speak of documents, have you seen them? Even RSK has not. The letters on the Forum stated that Nathaniel stated no documentation will be exchanged. So please, if you have copies, share them!
(Editor's note: As I have said, all the documents released by the monk Silver are posted on the Orthodox Forum.)
#33 MP on 2008-02-07 06:41
For those of you, who like me, do not know who Rod Dreher is (I had to google it) he has a blog on Beliefnet.com. According to a banner posted on that site, "Rod Dreher: Crunchy Con
A weblog about politics, society, and being an Orthodox Christian"
I'll admit I'm still confused as to why there are comments on whatever he specifically wrote, as I couldn't find the reference in the latest news section i.e what prompted all the comments.
Confused in Ohio
#34 Ann Ona Muss on 2008-02-07 07:20
No style points for you, my all-caps gonzo friend. I see you are still coming around here to scream at us about power. Why? One more time, with feeling: all-caps on the 'net is the equivalent of shouting. It is as rude as leaving a plastic turd in the punchbowl at a wedding. It does not persuade anyone, but it does make the rest of us wonder if somebody is off his meds again. BTW, Paul Harvey is a gentleman. If you are going to steal his sign-off, steal his manners, too.
#35 Scott Walker on 2008-02-07 09:58
My goodness. Acts 6:3 is about the appointment of the first deacons. It has nothing to say about the identification of a particular hierarch with the Holy Spirit. I retract my retraction of my criticism of your reading comprehension skills. I imagine you're equally good at missing the point when you read the Fathers and the canons. Every day. We know.
#36 Scott Walker on 2008-02-07 10:08
Scroll down at Crunchy Con until you get to the weekly archives. You'll find Rod's original post there.
#37 Scott Walker on 2008-02-07 10:12
It would be helpful to those of us who are expected to rely upon authoritative pronouncements like this if we know who you were and what your credentials were. I'm sorry, but your post contributes exactly nothing to the conversation. I don't mean to be rude here, but who are you? What is your degree in? Are there any views in Orthodoxy that challenge this? What would happen if we decided, as more or less an emergency measure, that America lacks a monastic tradition and it is impossible to sensibly conform to this particular tradition? Is it better to have the bishops we have and successors like them or to challenge this particular tradition? What value is a church "in worldwide communion" when the church has ceased to exist?
It is answers like this that almost convince me Orthodoxy will never be anything but a minor ethnic backwater that plays no real role in American Christian life.
So getting back to my original question, are you willing to defend the current method of getting our bishops on any grounds but "that's how we do it?" Or are you content with "that's just the way it is."
#38 Timothy Capps, Esq. on 2008-02-07 10:30
I understand and sympathize with you concern for transparency regarding OCMC's finances. I recently called their office and received a hard copy of the annual reports in the (snail) mail. Furthermore, the OCMC website will be updated to include financial information.
Hope this helps.
#39 Sdn Henry Shirley--St Herman of Alaska Chapel, West Bend, WI on 2008-02-07 11:56
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