Tuesday, September 22. 2009
News From the OCA
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The court ruling allows the OCA hierarchiey (Synod ofBishops) no authority. Only the authority of the local diocese. And then it is not clear that the local bishop is held accountable for its priests actions. Morally and legally are not equal. However, it would have been much better for the Church as a whole to have apologized and acknowledged its sin and weakness, then to allow the court to intervene. What a waste of good financial stewardship to the Church (legal lawsuits).
#1
anonymous
on
2009-09-22 19:21
Well done boys!
......
I suggest we freeze dry the OCA and reconstitute it when a cure is found.
......
I suggest we freeze dry the OCA and reconstitute it when a cure is found.
#2
no name
on
2009-09-22 20:14
For half my life, I've known Fr. Mike.
Axios!
Axios!
#3
Rev. David Kossey
on
2009-09-22 20:17
Fr. Dahulich is the new Bishop for NY/NJ! What a surprise. I am, of course, being sarcastic. We all knew he would be 'it' so why did we need to go through the sham of having a vote? Did anyone really think what we thought would count for anything? He was already elected even before the election and everyone knew it.
#4
Anonymous
on
2009-09-23 07:03
AXIOS, MUSTAHE, HE IS WORTHY!!!
What a joyous time for the OCA to elect a new Bishop for the Diocese of NY/NJ. As we Arabs say, Mabruk, to Fr. Michael Dahulich on his new ministry. I know that he will be a wonderful, kind and caring Bishop who will work very hard to keep the OCA continuing in their forward motion. You will not be disappointed. Fr. Michael is a very hard worker, faithful and God loving man, and my family has had the pleasure and blessing of knowing him and spending time with him on several occasions for the past 3 years.
I know he will be a great loss to St. Tikhons Seminary, where he has mentored and educated our young seminarians as their Dean. Hopefully, whomever is chosen as his successor will be able to do the same holy works that Fr. Michael did there for so many years.
God Bless You, Vladikya-Elect, with many, many years of health, peace and joy to serve His Holy Vineyard.
What a joyous time for the OCA to elect a new Bishop for the Diocese of NY/NJ. As we Arabs say, Mabruk, to Fr. Michael Dahulich on his new ministry. I know that he will be a wonderful, kind and caring Bishop who will work very hard to keep the OCA continuing in their forward motion. You will not be disappointed. Fr. Michael is a very hard worker, faithful and God loving man, and my family has had the pleasure and blessing of knowing him and spending time with him on several occasions for the past 3 years.
I know he will be a great loss to St. Tikhons Seminary, where he has mentored and educated our young seminarians as their Dean. Hopefully, whomever is chosen as his successor will be able to do the same holy works that Fr. Michael did there for so many years.
God Bless You, Vladikya-Elect, with many, many years of health, peace and joy to serve His Holy Vineyard.
Axios to Fr. Dahulich. NYers are lucky to have the best bishop now. The best bishop for the best City!
#6
Former St. Tikhon's student
on
2009-09-23 09:37
And what did you think? Some people, it seems, will complain about anything. You have no idea how lucky you are to have a man so worthy for the job. Some people are shoe-ins for no other reason than that they are the obvious pick, and Fr. Michael is one of those people. Complain all you want about "how" it was done, but nomatter how the election process was carried out you could not have come up with a better candidate for bishop.
#7
Anonymous
on
2009-09-23 17:49
Dear anonymous,
I agree with you.
With the lawsuits that were recently dropped, it will be interesting to see if Fr. Ray undergoes any church discipline.
Probably not.
But I think the court nailed it on the head anyway where they just said that any church can have "bad priests" (which they can do nothing about).
I wonder if the Church will enable the courts in maintaining that opinion of bad priests.
It seems so.
Patty Schellbach
I agree with you.
With the lawsuits that were recently dropped, it will be interesting to see if Fr. Ray undergoes any church discipline.
Probably not.
But I think the court nailed it on the head anyway where they just said that any church can have "bad priests" (which they can do nothing about).
I wonder if the Church will enable the courts in maintaining that opinion of bad priests.
It seems so.
Patty Schellbach
#8
Patty Schellbach
on
2009-09-23 18:17
My, oh my. I just read the affidavits of our clerical leadership. They sound like Sgt. Schultz of Hogan's Heroes : I hear nothing. . . I see nothing. . . I know nothing.
What pusillanimity!
What pusillanimity!
#9
Martin D. McGuigan, St. Nicholas Parish, Washington, D.C.
on
2009-09-23 19:36
I'm sorry--is there a better candidate you had in mind? Or are you just complaining?
I think that even Fr. Michael would admit that the election process was lacking. Hopefully it will be better next time--but for now, be happy that you have a bishop who will sacrifice everything for the people of NY/NJ.
I think that even Fr. Michael would admit that the election process was lacking. Hopefully it will be better next time--but for now, be happy that you have a bishop who will sacrifice everything for the people of NY/NJ.
#10
Anonymous
on
2009-09-23 20:22
Step 1: Metropolitan Jonah expresses his desire to see Archpriest Dahulich as Bishop of NY&NJ.
Step 2: A shoddy committee pulls together a slapdash election in 2 months, unilaterally (and secretly) selecting two other candidates besides Dahulich: one of which was the SIC-condemned Brum. Brum's obviously not a winner, but Dahulich and Mahaffey, in their CVs and interviews, espoused a provincial and uninspired theological outlook.
Step 3: Uproar, turmoil, something resembling a culture war.
Step 4: An assembly so shoddy and wracked with holes, UN Elections Observers would demand a new process.
Step 5: Instead of overturning the sham election, the Synod decides to side-step the issue, and instead, pick Jonah's man. Surprise.
This is somehow progress, or something to be happy about?
....
I doubt we will see any house-cleaning.
I'm sure I'll be denounced for not offering the requisite expressions of joy and "axios" but I don't feel he is worthy, I don't see how this event will build up joy or brotherhood in our diocese. Instead, it has driven a derisive spike deep into our clergy (and the fraction of laity and are informed and/or care) and further entrenched the position of men who really should be on the way out.
Meanwhile, Metropolitan Jonah lets off a lot of hot air about "resentment." Yes, Master, I will give up resentment - once 'you and yours' stop treading on us, your spiritual children!
Step 2: A shoddy committee pulls together a slapdash election in 2 months, unilaterally (and secretly) selecting two other candidates besides Dahulich: one of which was the SIC-condemned Brum. Brum's obviously not a winner, but Dahulich and Mahaffey, in their CVs and interviews, espoused a provincial and uninspired theological outlook.
Step 3: Uproar, turmoil, something resembling a culture war.
Step 4: An assembly so shoddy and wracked with holes, UN Elections Observers would demand a new process.
Step 5: Instead of overturning the sham election, the Synod decides to side-step the issue, and instead, pick Jonah's man. Surprise.
This is somehow progress, or something to be happy about?
....
I doubt we will see any house-cleaning.
I'm sure I'll be denounced for not offering the requisite expressions of joy and "axios" but I don't feel he is worthy, I don't see how this event will build up joy or brotherhood in our diocese. Instead, it has driven a derisive spike deep into our clergy (and the fraction of laity and are informed and/or care) and further entrenched the position of men who really should be on the way out.
Meanwhile, Metropolitan Jonah lets off a lot of hot air about "resentment." Yes, Master, I will give up resentment - once 'you and yours' stop treading on us, your spiritual children!
#11
Fed Up
on
2009-09-24 02:21
I don't object to Fr. Dahulich himself. Frankly, I don't even know the man. But I DO object to the way the so-called election was held. I agree with the poster above, he had a mitre even before the election. Why make people go through all that when the bishop has already been chosen?
#12
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 04:58
Understand that the make-up of Synod of the OCA has changed. Converts and non-NOSH are the majority. In the 70's & 80's, there had to be a "token" convert; now we need a "token" NOSH boy. Dahulich is the guy! Carpatho, good education, likable, from the holy land (PA). If + Jonah returned to the monastic life, Dahulich would be the shoe-in for Met. Oh, how things have changed!
The order of the next 10 years: "How to re-build the OCA?"
The order of the next 10 years: "How to re-build the OCA?"
#13
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 06:53
Dear Fed Up:
The last time I checked, the process, including the Holy Synod, is one of discernment as to who the HOLY SPIRIT has revealed as the next bishop. Do you think we can get the election process idea out of our heads and remember it is discernment process.
When the next Statute is written strike the word election and insert discernment.
(editor's note: This words is much overused. "Discernment" can be a code word for passivity. It is not the case that we just sit there waiting for enlightenment like the Buddha; as Orthodox Christian we believe in synergy, where we cooperate with the Holy Spirit to fully reveal the Will of God. Conciliarity is expressed not only in who participates, but how - it is not the case everybody sits around like a bunch of Quakers waiting for the Spirit to be manifest. Rather, we talk, discuss, challenge, question, pray, worship, again and again - it is work, liturgia, done in the hope and confidence that the Spirit is guiding the process, not just revealing an outcome.)
The last time I checked, the process, including the Holy Synod, is one of discernment as to who the HOLY SPIRIT has revealed as the next bishop. Do you think we can get the election process idea out of our heads and remember it is discernment process.
When the next Statute is written strike the word election and insert discernment.
(editor's note: This words is much overused. "Discernment" can be a code word for passivity. It is not the case that we just sit there waiting for enlightenment like the Buddha; as Orthodox Christian we believe in synergy, where we cooperate with the Holy Spirit to fully reveal the Will of God. Conciliarity is expressed not only in who participates, but how - it is not the case everybody sits around like a bunch of Quakers waiting for the Spirit to be manifest. Rather, we talk, discuss, challenge, question, pray, worship, again and again - it is work, liturgia, done in the hope and confidence that the Spirit is guiding the process, not just revealing an outcome.)
#14
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 07:03
Axios! Fr. Michael is an amazing individual. Many years and may Christ protect him and grant him length of days! OCA is blessed with him as the new bishop. He unworthily deserves this in my eyes if anyone. God bless him and his ministry.
#15
William
on
2009-09-24 07:09
Boy, what planet do you live on? You have an axe to grind here. Who exactly are you speaking against? Your comments are most revealing.
#16
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 11:28
Discernment as a code word for passivity? I suppose if you define humility as weakness and patience as inaction you are right. But where in the world do you jump to such a ridiculous conclusion to presume that discernment is passivity from what the writer wrote?
(editor's note: humility is not weakness, nor is patience inaction - until it become such. Nor is discernment always passivity - nor is that what I said. I said it can be used as "code" for a view of things that denies synergia. Nor more or less. You may find that assertion ridiculous - I don't. Feel free to disagree.)
(editor's note: humility is not weakness, nor is patience inaction - until it become such. Nor is discernment always passivity - nor is that what I said. I said it can be used as "code" for a view of things that denies synergia. Nor more or less. You may find that assertion ridiculous - I don't. Feel free to disagree.)
#17
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 11:46
Re: “The OCA is a New York corporation created by New York statute."
I'm glad that I left this New York corporation to become a member of the Orthodox Church!
(editor's note: Well, you just left one for another. Almost all, if not all, the Orthodox jurisdictions in America have provisions in NY state law, where all are incorporated. It's all rather fascinating reading, actually....)
I'm glad that I left this New York corporation to become a member of the Orthodox Church!
(editor's note: Well, you just left one for another. Almost all, if not all, the Orthodox jurisdictions in America have provisions in NY state law, where all are incorporated. It's all rather fascinating reading, actually....)
#18
Anonymous
on
2009-09-24 19:37
Well, all I know about the man is that he was Dean of St. Tikhon's, and therefore, as Dean he should have know that the proprerty was being mortgaged out from underneath him. Yeah, I know, the seminary and monastery are two different entities. But come on, it's the same land and what happens to one, by default, happens to the other. The Dean should have known what was going on. So the question remains, did he, and if he did, why wasn't anything done or said about it? He may be a great Bishop, who knows. But he needs to address this concern, and it's not only me who's concerned about it. There are a lot of people thinking the same thing.
#19
Anonymous
on
2009-09-25 05:25
Anyone know where the new Bishop will be living? Hopefully he'll be living in the diocese and not in PA. Been there, done that, and don't need a repeat of it.
#20
Anonymous
on
2009-09-25 05:28
Could someone help me out here? What's "NOSH" supposed to mean in this context? It's a new one on me.
(Editor's note: "nosh" means " Ours", as in "one of our people", etc....)
(Editor's note: "nosh" means " Ours", as in "one of our people", etc....)
#21
Anonymous
on
2009-09-25 06:35
"Discernment" - so, if we are just agents of divine discernment, does that mean all of our actions are infallible and perfect?
I think not. We are not mystically divining God's choice. We are making a decision - a human decision, based in prayer, but a human decision nonetheless. How else can you explain when the Church makes bad decisions - like electing Bp. Nikolai, or Bp. Tikhon of the West, or Abp. Peter. What about all of the bad decisions councils have made over the years?
It was an election, it is an election, and always will be. Any other attempt at explanation is a lot of pious hot air.
I think not. We are not mystically divining God's choice. We are making a decision - a human decision, based in prayer, but a human decision nonetheless. How else can you explain when the Church makes bad decisions - like electing Bp. Nikolai, or Bp. Tikhon of the West, or Abp. Peter. What about all of the bad decisions councils have made over the years?
It was an election, it is an election, and always will be. Any other attempt at explanation is a lot of pious hot air.
#22
Fed Up
on
2009-09-25 10:27
Mark, why did you redact portions of my comments?
If you are going to be an intrusive moderator, abide by the conventions whereby you: (1) make it clear that you are redacting comments and (2) provide an explanation of why you made an edit somewhere in the post.
(editor's note: .... indicates I have edited something. I edit things for several reasons: I know them to be untrue based on my own actual experience, they cross my ever- moving line of what is socially acceptable ( usually too foul, crass or just plain rude), they are libelous, even to this non-attorney, and a new one this week, they make references to accusations of sexual misconduct that have already been fairly and openly adjudicated according to policy and the defendent found not guilty. I also knowingly don't let people take advantage of anonymity: anonymity is for people who are frightened and powerless - not the powerful who just want to cause trouble and get in shots.)
If you are going to be an intrusive moderator, abide by the conventions whereby you: (1) make it clear that you are redacting comments and (2) provide an explanation of why you made an edit somewhere in the post.
(editor's note: .... indicates I have edited something. I edit things for several reasons: I know them to be untrue based on my own actual experience, they cross my ever- moving line of what is socially acceptable ( usually too foul, crass or just plain rude), they are libelous, even to this non-attorney, and a new one this week, they make references to accusations of sexual misconduct that have already been fairly and openly adjudicated according to policy and the defendent found not guilty. I also knowingly don't let people take advantage of anonymity: anonymity is for people who are frightened and powerless - not the powerful who just want to cause trouble and get in shots.)
#23
Fed Up
on
2009-09-25 10:31
Those bad decisions did not discern God's will and we are free to make bad choices too. That is what free will is all about and God allows us to make bad choices. The alternative is not love.
So it is still discernment and not an election in a "democratic" win/lose 51-49% understanding.
Are we to vote what parts of our life we will permit God to lead us and what parts we don't? Freedom in Christ means we are free to choose Christ and to be free from sin. Discernment is indispensable in the process of Theosis.
So it is still discernment and not an election in a "democratic" win/lose 51-49% understanding.
Are we to vote what parts of our life we will permit God to lead us and what parts we don't? Freedom in Christ means we are free to choose Christ and to be free from sin. Discernment is indispensable in the process of Theosis.
#24
Anonymous
on
2009-09-30 07:04
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