A Frayed Connection

Wow! That's a depressing article. I was shocked by the priest who said he'd rather not have people from the neighborhood start coming to church. He apparantly doens't knows to whom the Church belongs. And what is up with using Church Slavonic? I can see using Russian in a parish full of Russian speakers but Church Slavonic in a neighborhood full of English speakers? Talk about hiding your light under a bushel. The harvest is white but the laborers are few.

(Editor's note: The harvest is white? You are conflating verses in Matthew and John, Matt; but we get your point.)

#1 Matt Karnes on 2010-01-04 22:03

What is amazing about all these changes is that it shows the Church, the OCA, is strong. Think about it, the entire Synod of the OCA has changed! This wasn't planned or engineered, but it was the "God's will." The Holy Spirit has acted and the bishops now guiding the American church are new. Why? We don't know exactly why, but we can be assured the Holy Spirit has acted. Through out the centuries the leadership of the Church on earth has changed which should tell all, "We are not here long to do God's work!" Man proposes, but God disposes. Let us all ask God to help us to do His work while we are here, not our own!

#2 Anonymous on 2010-01-05 09:32

I interpreted that comment more as not wanting a newcomer to buy their way into a church. That's true wherever one worships. I'm familiar with these parishes and never got the impression that no one is welcome there. But look around you in your own home parishes, look at the ethnic makeup of those who are sitting next to you. It's pretty rare to find a real mix of ethnicity out there. Strength in the OCA will come when we truly open our doors. We talk the talk, but to walk the walk and let people know that God's salvation is open to ALL mankind, we shall see.

#3 Anon on 2010-01-06 09:28

Anon wrote, "But look around you in your own home parishes, look at the ethnic makeup of those who are sitting next to you. It's pretty rare to find a real mix of ethnicity out there."

All I have to do is look around in my own parish. It's a Midwest Diocese suburban parish, established in 1970. Two-thirds "cradle" and one-third "convert." Yes, many third and fourth-generation Carpatho-Russians and other Slavs, but we've also got immigrants from Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, even Ethiopia (these are the ones I know of). While Slavonic services are available locally, these folks apparently want their children to be in English-language services. Then we've got folks of Greek heritage who want English services. The converts are from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, many from what I call "American mutt" (I'm German/French-Canadian/Scottish/Irish/English myself). Our all-English services are a common denominator. We pull folks from four counties (we're centrally located on the border of two, and not far from a third).

It took a full year for anyone to ask me if I was Russian, and I've not had any similar question since.

#4 Michele Hagerman on 2010-01-06 17:24

There needs to be more posted here about what + Bartholomew is trying to do with world Orthodoxy. 1st off, he trying to get all Orthodox to believe that because of Canon 28 (4th Council) that he really has authority over ALL the Orthodox world wide. This is a lie! Next, he has all of the bishops in his pocket insisting that only HE can decide what churches can be autocephalous and which can't. This is another lie! Neither Apostolic Tradition nor the Canons support this. When the Apostles founded churches, they appointed bishops to run these local churches and left. The Holy Spirit guided them. The Apostles didn't say, "Now you report to Rome or Constantinople."
What Orthodoxy worldwide is experiencing is + Bartholomew TRULY trying to set himself up as an Eastern Pope. In fact, his lies are the same that Rome put forth to try and rule all of Christendom. Doesn't anyone see this? Why are the bishops blind to this power grab which is non-canonical and anti-apostolic?
If Orthodoxy at it's highest levels refuse to follow the Truth, then it is no longer "The Orthodox Church." Didn't we learn anything from the Council of Florence? Only Kievan/Rus remained Orthodox while Constantinople and all Orthodoxy fell into heresy. Doesn't anyone read Church History???????

#5 Anonymous on 2010-01-07 09:58

Sorry, but the entire Synod of the OCA has not changed. Three of the sitting bishops were named in the SIC Report as having knowledge of the video tape and the attempted shakedown in Moscow. Some of their actions pursuant to this knowledge are detailed in the Report. They were not stellar actions, at all.

Abp JOB kept asking: Are the allegations true?

Some of his brother bishops knew and kept silent. This is not a new Synod by any means. The one voice crying in the synodal wilderness was silenced this past month. Unless God raise up another like +Job, then heaven help us, indeed!

Fr John Reeves

#6 Fr John Reeves on 2010-01-07 16:17

I'm still searching in the article for a remark from a priest implying that he would not like to have neighborhood residents attend his church. I would need to evaluate the context, as well as the exact quote. On what page did this remark appear ? Thanks! Also, was this an Orthodox priest, or one of the Catholic priests referenced in the article?

The article bears a reading more careful than perhaps has been attempted by others. The problem is not the Church, but lies within those uninterested in Christianity, such as the non-religious, so-called "spiritual" individuals quoted in the article. For example, the woman raised in a Protestant-Jewish household inherited nary a chance of being raised with any coherent religious self-consciousness.

The Church has room for all languages. There is no "superior language". English, Church Slavonic, Arabic, Greek, French, and all other languages are valid for use in Orthodox parishes in the United States. The dominant language of a church service should be the language spoken and/or understood by the majority of the worshipers present. It makes me sad, however, when I read, as frequently I do at other websites and in other publications, the misinformed, wholesale rejections of using any language other than English, even in lesser proportions to the overall service.

#7 Antonia on 2010-01-08 10:05

Matt,

The parish using mostly Church Slavonic is probably 90% Russian immigrants.

#8 Alexis on 2010-01-08 21:20

Unfortunately, Orthodoxy in Philadelphia proper is stuck in a "serve the old world roots only" mode - for now. I lived in that area for many years and I have friends that continue to live in Northern Liberties: the churches need to engage the community unreservedly and they will grow and thrive. To the comment on the OCA: St. Nicholas's in the article is an OCA parish. It is not doing what it needs to do either. There is so much opportunity in that community for the Orthodox church, it is painful for me to read the article. The young people in this neighborhood are desperate for spirituality and spiritual healing. It is almost as if they are crying out.

You never know: if anyone wants to Orthodox evangelism, I can think of few places the opportunity is more ripe than in Northern Liberties. If a hierarch is reading this, please, please do something. A few individuals with energy could revive these temples. It will take openness and work.

#9 anon on 2010-01-09 09:18

It occurred to me that is any clergy do read this, perhaps establishing women's monastery with a very visible ministry to the community would be a way to aid all these churches.

#10 anon on 2010-01-09 09:25

I left a comment on the Philly.com page. I am going to reproduce it here in hope and prayer that someone local will read it and will light a fire in this community:

"What is happening here is shameful. These people in Northern Liberties are crying out for spirituality. When I asked a regional priest for a recommendation for two young Philadelphia residents to visit an Orthodox church, I got two: neither were in the city. Open up your churches and fill them to overflowing. For the churches, some suggestions: 1) Classes on spirituality, including contemplative prayer, theosis, and the writings of the Fathers (perhaps the Philokalia). Teach people the eastern alternative to the "substitionary atonement": the church as a place of spiritual healing. 2) After liturgy have a community meal every week for free. 3) Regular choral concerts for free in the community: you have the most beautiful music in the world. 4) Sponsor the Northern Liberties gardens. Tell people about the Ecumenical Patriarch's "green theology". 5)Advertise in the cafes, bars and streets. Advertise for services, classes, events, constantly: be the lifeblood of the community. 6) The neighborhood is artsy: have icon painting classes with traditional mediums like egg tempora. Teach about icons. Show your icons in special open houses. Given away icons. 7) Concelebrate the liturgy each Sunday. Put aside all jurisdictional concerns and fill each temple to overflowing. Show the unity of the faith in the reception of the body and blood of God, as we must.

Organize social work to help the local poor that fully involves the community. Work with the local rabbi too: remember there was a time until the destruction of the temple that we worshiped together with them. 9) Start a mission in a neighboring African American community consecrated to an African saint. Be visibly involved. Start a fire. Fill your churches. Be what you are meant to be: a light, a beacon, a safe harbor, the living continuation of the Incarnation."

#11 anon on 2010-01-09 12:26

What's amazing is that our bishops and laity live in a delusion that everything is "great". The outreach in the Orthodox Church is severely lacking, as its its inspiring leaders. Is it the laity that do not care or the priests that no longer prepare for sermons? Who are not taught public speaking at the seminaries? Who do not pursue grants from the US government for shelters, job training and social programs necessary to attract new parishioners and provide community outreach? Who don't in many cases even have a website or cell phone? Our seminaries need to train priests and ministers for this century - maintaining the Apostolic teachings and traditions while suggesting and providing modern skills. We also need more Orthodox colleges and schools. The bishops and faithful depressed need only look in a mirror. And, while these same people say 'God will provide', perhaps, it's His Will and His way of saying that factions no longer are practical and a united Church is necessary perhaps more so in our country than anywhere in the world.

#12 Anonymous on 2010-01-11 22:30

I go to a non-ethnic Antiochian church. We're predominately American, and use 100% English. Still, most of our parishioners travel an average of 20 minutes to get to church, and do not live in the neighborhood itself. I think this is the case for vast majority of churches today, not just Orthodox ones. We advertise and are welcoming to visitors, but we do not make forays into the community. I suppose we could, if someone were called and blessed to do this. But I don't look at this as an essential thing in that if this were done without people having the right calling or gifts for this ministry, it could end badly--misunderstandings, more drop outs from church.

The churches in the article (and even my own church) are losing the battle on church growth when the high school children go to college and do not come back to church. That, and the large convert drop out rate. Becoming and remaining Orthodox is not easy. It requires the expenditure of spiritual capital, something which we have in short supply. Also, it requires that people be willing to humble themselves to the treatments prescribed by the Church--something which is so out of fashion today it is almost unheard of except in weird cults. We are dealing with a condition of general spiritual decline in which a genuine lack of spiritual depth and a hunger for real spiritual life that is masked by a pervasive market of fluffy cafeteria spirituality. But this has been the case, I think, for a number of decades.

Language, in itself, however, is not the problem. In some cases, it is a symptom of a problem--ethnocentricity. In others, it is a contributor to a problem--ignorance of faith. These two are very serious, of course. But I know of churches and people who are not plagued by either of these, and still they are struggling and falling away. This brings to mind Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica's prescription for solving the problems of our community and the whole world--changing ourselves, specifically our thoughts--so that they will be more loving, kinder, more God-centered. We expect someone else to do something--the priest, that other church over there, the bishop. But it's our problem. If we really have Christ in our hearts, people will see that and be helped and come to church, even if we say nothing.

That, of course, doesn't mean that problems in the Church are not taken care of. They must be. But if we neglect ourselves, personally, there will be newer, bigger problems which we cannot tackle.

Thanks for posting the article, Mark. I thought it was interesting, though I had to get past the over-the-top approach. One could write a journalist's manual for how to write about Orthodoxy.

#13 Eric Peterson on 2010-01-12 13:50

I also found this article depressing. At times it is so frustrating to see the Orthodox Church in a bunker mentality wherein the church of the past is served, preserved, as in a museum, but the church of the present is sacrificed to this mistaken notion. It is especially sad because many of us have seen how a church can grow by opening its doors to all those around. Hopefully we can see that the Orthodox Church needs to be defined by who it welcomes, not by who it has kept out.

#14 Sean O'Clare on 2010-01-13 13:54

I would say that the fact that the author is calling the liturgical language of that St. Andrew's Cathedral "Old Church Slavonic" or "old slavonic" shows his lack of knowledge, at least of languages. Neither are used by the Church. There is a Moscow recension of Church Slavonic (and Serbian, and other recensions) that is an extant liturgical language. Old Church Slavonic has nasal vowels and a different syllable structure from "Church Slavonic" and Russian.

So the St. Andrew Cathedral parish that is a topic in the article is not an OCA parish, but a "Moscow Patriarchate" parish. A couple years ago, many from one such parish near us "migrated" into our OCA parish, and were delighted that the services were in English, so that their children and convert spouses could actually understand and pray the liturgy.

What a concept!!

They still won't sit in the pews, but that's ok, I don't either.

I would agree that English makes sense in general for a parish in the United States, actually, add Spanish in some areas.

Russian immigrants and other guests in our country (USA) can learn English, or if they're lucky they can find a parish that makes them "comfortable" in their own language, though I'd say comfortable should not to be confused with salvific. If I were to move to Finland for example, I would probably be happy to find a parish where English was spoken by some members, but I wouldn't expect it. How dare I? I'd learn Finnish! Mitä kuuluu?

.....

Some Slavonic is nice for Nativity and Pascha, if people can understand it, but why make a museum piece of the Church?? If such things were the tradition of the Apostles, I'm sure that the Lord and His Disciples would have spoken the venerable Hebrew amidst the masses of Greek-speaking Jews.

#15 Anonymous on 2010-01-15 20:24

Well, Fr., let's see:
- + Theodosius is gone
- + Herman is gone
- + Nicolai is gone
- + Tikhon (of the West) is gone
- + Kirill is gone
- + Dimetri is gone
- RSK is gone

What do you want? Talk about a turn-over!

(Editor's note: Turnover, yes: change? The proof is in the pudding, and so far, it appears to be still in the oven....)

#16 Anonymous on 2010-01-26 06:49

Bottom of page 4. Looking at it again, it seems a though it could be parsed a couple different ways: one that would exclude the "high-powered newcomers" (who, a priori, would be expected to disturb the present parishioners); and another that just wouldn't want them (once there) to disturb the "prestige" of his present parishioners--and that could be construed simply as a matter of courtesy and charity, I suppose.
At first read, I definitely thought the former, with deep regrets. Am hoping for the latter.

#17 Fr. Dennis Buck on 2010-01-27 14:09

A Frayed Connection

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Monday, January 4. 2010

A Frayed Connection

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