Tuesday, November 1. 2011
+Jonah To Enter Evaluation
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Jonah did undergo a psychological evaluation after Santa Fe. But it was not the one that Bishop Benjamin insisted upon, which was at a drug and alcohol treatment center. When Jonah did not agree to that particular place, Benjamin started his attacks on Jonah which culminated in those DOW resolutions.
You leave the impression when you write:
(The Synod has previously asked and had agreement for an evaluation in February in Santa Fe. Upon leaving Santa Fe, however, the Metropolitan refused.)
He was evaluated and his evaluation came back that he was "safe and sane." The evaluation came from the doctor, fully accredited in the State of Maryland. He shared that information with the Synod but they were not satisfied. Why? Because Benjamin was not and insisted that Jonah do it his way.
Let us hope that another evaluation of Jonah will prove just as positive as the last one and that once and for all the Synod can stop this game of blaming Jonah for everything and they not willing to take even a small part of the blame for the serious dysfunction in the OCA.
This has to stop or what is left of the OCA will simply wither away.
(Editor's note: Did you even read the Metropolitan's speech? He is the problem, and he admitted it. Now to the second step - help. Being checked out by a doctor is not what the Synod asked, nor what he agreed to, in Santa Fe. The children asked for bread, and you give them stones, and wonder why they are still hungry? Rather than continue to assign blame to everyone ( Benjamin, the Synod, Fr. Garklavs, the staff, the MC, Syosset, among others) or everything ( Gays, liberal media, differing visions of autocephaly, or past administrations, or whatever) let's just see if he goes for evaluation as he promised. )
You leave the impression when you write:
(The Synod has previously asked and had agreement for an evaluation in February in Santa Fe. Upon leaving Santa Fe, however, the Metropolitan refused.)
He was evaluated and his evaluation came back that he was "safe and sane." The evaluation came from the doctor, fully accredited in the State of Maryland. He shared that information with the Synod but they were not satisfied. Why? Because Benjamin was not and insisted that Jonah do it his way.
Let us hope that another evaluation of Jonah will prove just as positive as the last one and that once and for all the Synod can stop this game of blaming Jonah for everything and they not willing to take even a small part of the blame for the serious dysfunction in the OCA.
This has to stop or what is left of the OCA will simply wither away.
(Editor's note: Did you even read the Metropolitan's speech? He is the problem, and he admitted it. Now to the second step - help. Being checked out by a doctor is not what the Synod asked, nor what he agreed to, in Santa Fe. The children asked for bread, and you give them stones, and wonder why they are still hungry? Rather than continue to assign blame to everyone ( Benjamin, the Synod, Fr. Garklavs, the staff, the MC, Syosset, among others) or everything ( Gays, liberal media, differing visions of autocephaly, or past administrations, or whatever) let's just see if he goes for evaluation as he promised. )
#1
Anonymous
on
2011-11-01 12:38
So all of a sudden +Jonah is saying he will do blah,blah,blah..Why could he not have done these things when first asked. His creditibility is VERY low. He says this now, but will he truly follow through. He never has before.I am a therapist and the first step is someone admitting they have a problem. It never is productive when one feels backed into a corner and goes for help beccause they are made to, to keep their job- this NEVER works. They play along for a while and when the heat is off, they return to their true ways.
#2
realist!
on
2011-11-01 13:50
Would you check yourself into a drug and alcohol rehab program if you were not an addict? What is the point of that? It makes no sense. Just to amuse Benjamin?
Sure he admitted he is the problem. That section of his address was given to him on Sunday. He, being the person he is, accepted it and read it. But that wasn't good enough for Benjamin who continued to beat him up after his address.
You, who worked behind the scenes to take Jonah out prior to Santa Fe really should not be commenting on things. You really think that Benjamin, Garklavs, and the Synod are without blame? If you do, you really have lost it. TIme for you to take a long vacation.
Your last comment, "let's just see if he goes for the evaluation" again ignores the fact that he went through a complete psych exam, and he will do it again. You just won't accept that he did it then in a sincere manner, so I guess if you didn't accept it then you will only be happy if the results are what you are hoping for, that he is "gravely troubled." Hogwash.
(Editor's note: If the Metropolitan is willing to seek help, you would be wise to follow his example and encourage it, rather than assist in denial and continue to enable what he himself admits was a" disaster". Let's just wait and see what emerges from a mutually acceptable process.)
Sure he admitted he is the problem. That section of his address was given to him on Sunday. He, being the person he is, accepted it and read it. But that wasn't good enough for Benjamin who continued to beat him up after his address.
You, who worked behind the scenes to take Jonah out prior to Santa Fe really should not be commenting on things. You really think that Benjamin, Garklavs, and the Synod are without blame? If you do, you really have lost it. TIme for you to take a long vacation.
Your last comment, "let's just see if he goes for the evaluation" again ignores the fact that he went through a complete psych exam, and he will do it again. You just won't accept that he did it then in a sincere manner, so I guess if you didn't accept it then you will only be happy if the results are what you are hoping for, that he is "gravely troubled." Hogwash.
(Editor's note: If the Metropolitan is willing to seek help, you would be wise to follow his example and encourage it, rather than assist in denial and continue to enable what he himself admits was a" disaster". Let's just wait and see what emerges from a mutually acceptable process.)
#3
Anonymous
on
2011-11-01 15:02
What I found most interesting is Jonah's feeling the greatest pain from the Holy Synod. Why only the Holy Synod? Whether he noticed it or not it was the people like Garklavs and Tosi who were trying to save his but initially. But in Jonah's mind they were just little gnats getting in the way of things. The ones that made Jonah tear up and hurt his feelings were the other bishops. Geez, what did they do? (And quite frankly, which of them was he ever really close to except Dmitri?)
Not to overdramatize this any more than I already have, but Jonah has a whole lot of issues. He seems to have an enormously difficult time processing information. Hello, earth to Jonah, we've been telling you this for three years. You are only now figuring out that you haven't been doing a very good job? He really seems to have an enormously exalted vision of his importance when you think about it. Why did he want to move to Washington? No, it wasn't to smell cherry blossoms or to visit Georgetown. He genuinely thought that he was going to be the next Billy Graham and hob nob with people like Obama on a daily basis! He went to one rally and suddenly he's Martin Luther King!
Some insiders are saying that he has already agreed privately to step aside in November. I hope and pray that this is true. In the end, Jonah is a nice enough guy with a lot of issues. He was thrust upon the center stage of the OCA because of one good speech and the white hat went to his head. Let him step aside with some dignity and let's get back to building up God's Holy Church.
(Editor's note: To be frank, the implicit dismissal of the staff, officers and MC by the Metropolitan, is not an attitude shared by the Metropolitan alone. It is all too often an episcopal disease, not just a primatial one. This is Ignatian ecclesiology gone mad; from where the Bishop is there is the Church, to the Bishop is the only part of the Church that really matters.)
Not to overdramatize this any more than I already have, but Jonah has a whole lot of issues. He seems to have an enormously difficult time processing information. Hello, earth to Jonah, we've been telling you this for three years. You are only now figuring out that you haven't been doing a very good job? He really seems to have an enormously exalted vision of his importance when you think about it. Why did he want to move to Washington? No, it wasn't to smell cherry blossoms or to visit Georgetown. He genuinely thought that he was going to be the next Billy Graham and hob nob with people like Obama on a daily basis! He went to one rally and suddenly he's Martin Luther King!
Some insiders are saying that he has already agreed privately to step aside in November. I hope and pray that this is true. In the end, Jonah is a nice enough guy with a lot of issues. He was thrust upon the center stage of the OCA because of one good speech and the white hat went to his head. Let him step aside with some dignity and let's get back to building up God's Holy Church.
(Editor's note: To be frank, the implicit dismissal of the staff, officers and MC by the Metropolitan, is not an attitude shared by the Metropolitan alone. It is all too often an episcopal disease, not just a primatial one. This is Ignatian ecclesiology gone mad; from where the Bishop is there is the Church, to the Bishop is the only part of the Church that really matters.)
#4
Anon.
on
2011-11-01 15:34
What is this going to cost us!? And another two of these bubbleheaded bishops are going along?
Notice that non of the old bishops from the 20's - 70's wound up in the soumochetchee dom! Though God know's with our people they had reason to do so. Look, this nutcase should never never never have been elected in the first place Metropolitan let alone a Bishop, and btw what idiot ordained him a priest? More and more play church.
Time to cut our losses, dump him. Look, if the man is ill, by all means lets get him help and pay for it, after all the OCA claims it is a Christian Church, but Metropolitan?! Are you all nuts?
Notice that non of the old bishops from the 20's - 70's wound up in the soumochetchee dom! Though God know's with our people they had reason to do so. Look, this nutcase should never never never have been elected in the first place Metropolitan let alone a Bishop, and btw what idiot ordained him a priest? More and more play church.
Time to cut our losses, dump him. Look, if the man is ill, by all means lets get him help and pay for it, after all the OCA claims it is a Christian Church, but Metropolitan?! Are you all nuts?
#5
Horse Pucky
on
2011-11-01 16:09
During the Divine Liturgy, when we who are going to commune with our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ are called to pray, and admit that we are the first among sinners; I, like most of my brothers and sisters in Christ, sincerely pray this believing it is true.
Although many of us have serious concerns about the leadership of our OCA, I will not, and I encourage my brothers and sisters not to judge our Metropolitan regarding his personal challenges and the cross that he has to live with. We should all pray for a positive outcome for +Jonah and the Church.
Although many of us have serious concerns about the leadership of our OCA, I will not, and I encourage my brothers and sisters not to judge our Metropolitan regarding his personal challenges and the cross that he has to live with. We should all pray for a positive outcome for +Jonah and the Church.
#6
Marc Trolinger
on
2011-11-01 16:31
I agree with you! The Met. announced this at the AAC on the first day to diffuse ideas of demoting him. Nice ploy! Now, if he shows up at the site for evaluation, I would bet he won't take the full program. We'll see. The issue at the AAC should be; here is a Primate that isn't ready for that role. Let him go to be a diocesan bishop in Dallas and prove himself. Put a more experienced and proven hierarch in place as Primate. If this does not happen, we will be stuck with at least 3 more years of seriously questionable leader. WHY????????
#7
anonymous
on
2011-11-01 16:42
With respect, that is not universally true. For example, coercion often works in chemical dependency.
#8
Carl Kraeff
on
2011-11-01 17:20
I have read a number of interesting and amusing comments about the upcoming $50 per head proposals and I have to say that I am finally on board. I was one of those individuals who felt that the central administration served some limited but important functions. However the more I have thought about the question, "What functions are essential for the central administration?" I'm really hard-pressed to find many.
If you are or were like me and have held to the belief that the central administration is doing something useful like keeping in contact with the rest of Holy Orthodoxy or keeping records of clergy, or even putting on an AAC, I suggest you look very carefully at the financials from the Diocese of the South. They have their stuff together and they do it on significantly less than what it takes to run the entire central administration. They are the bank of the South for many parishes. God bless them and their work. They could did literally everything that the central administration is doing without thinking twice. And for the record, I have never been there and have no ties to anyone there. But the proof is in their financials.
I have nothing against the few remaining people in Syosset, but it's time to pack the bags and look for other employment. Fr. Eric Tosi and Fr. John Jillions, go to part-time like Melanie Ringa. Keep one other person to answer the phone and pick up the mail. Everyone else, it's time to find other jobs.
A good example of just making up work is the OCA insurance program which involves most of the parishes. The OCA sits and tracks whether each parish has paid their insurance and whether they name the Central Administration on part of their policy. Folks, its unnecessary. Let each parish worry about their own insurance. How about the clergy lists? Again, this can and should be a diocesan function. Let each diocese correspond with the other diocese or jurisdiction. They've created a cottage industry for the central administration to be informed of every clergy move. Leave it to the diocese. It's not necessary. If a diocese has a problem with a clergyman, it's their issue and they should do their own investigations.
When you start peeling back the layers of excuses and stupid government work that has been created, you see that $50 per head is more than enough to run the OCA.
God willing, some sanity will prevail.
(Editor's note: Such attitudes betray a woeful ignorance of what Syosset really does. Let me share an actual incident, using your example. In the 1990's a late Archbishop announced he was going to ordain a deacon. The notice was sent to Syosset. Someone at Syosset recognized the name from another diocese, another decade - and sure enough, after digging through files, found the man had sought ordination twice in two other OCA dioceses,, as well as the Catholic Church. He had been refused, having been married twice, not to mention the mental health issues, etc., etc.,. The Bishop was furious - but the ordination was stopped, and the Church saved a potential great embarassment and a potential pastoral problem. Your idea that "we can all hang separately" is most likely literally true. As Ben Franklin said 250 years ago: we must hang together.
If you are or were like me and have held to the belief that the central administration is doing something useful like keeping in contact with the rest of Holy Orthodoxy or keeping records of clergy, or even putting on an AAC, I suggest you look very carefully at the financials from the Diocese of the South. They have their stuff together and they do it on significantly less than what it takes to run the entire central administration. They are the bank of the South for many parishes. God bless them and their work. They could did literally everything that the central administration is doing without thinking twice. And for the record, I have never been there and have no ties to anyone there. But the proof is in their financials.
I have nothing against the few remaining people in Syosset, but it's time to pack the bags and look for other employment. Fr. Eric Tosi and Fr. John Jillions, go to part-time like Melanie Ringa. Keep one other person to answer the phone and pick up the mail. Everyone else, it's time to find other jobs.
A good example of just making up work is the OCA insurance program which involves most of the parishes. The OCA sits and tracks whether each parish has paid their insurance and whether they name the Central Administration on part of their policy. Folks, its unnecessary. Let each parish worry about their own insurance. How about the clergy lists? Again, this can and should be a diocesan function. Let each diocese correspond with the other diocese or jurisdiction. They've created a cottage industry for the central administration to be informed of every clergy move. Leave it to the diocese. It's not necessary. If a diocese has a problem with a clergyman, it's their issue and they should do their own investigations.
When you start peeling back the layers of excuses and stupid government work that has been created, you see that $50 per head is more than enough to run the OCA.
God willing, some sanity will prevail.
(Editor's note: Such attitudes betray a woeful ignorance of what Syosset really does. Let me share an actual incident, using your example. In the 1990's a late Archbishop announced he was going to ordain a deacon. The notice was sent to Syosset. Someone at Syosset recognized the name from another diocese, another decade - and sure enough, after digging through files, found the man had sought ordination twice in two other OCA dioceses,, as well as the Catholic Church. He had been refused, having been married twice, not to mention the mental health issues, etc., etc.,. The Bishop was furious - but the ordination was stopped, and the Church saved a potential great embarassment and a potential pastoral problem. Your idea that "we can all hang separately" is most likely literally true. As Ben Franklin said 250 years ago: we must hang together.
#9
Anonymous
on
2011-11-01 18:37
So,nothing changes!Jonah promises and the next day,or week he will be back to his old self!This synod has no courage to act and save the O.C.A. from this Metropolitan.A former O.C.A. priest.
#10
A former O.C.A.Priest.
on
2011-11-01 21:17
as a therapist, one would think you would recognize that one individual's "rock bottom" is completely different from another.
you are absolutely correct, though. when backed into a corner, some folks will say or do whatever they have to do in order to get the pressure off and then continue later. we've heard this song before, however it either takes guts and humility or deceit and lunacy to make such statements before the entire body of representative delegates at a council of this magnitude.
all our love, support, and prayers that he has actually hit his own rock bottom and can start climbing out with the help that has been offered and encouraged time and again. there may very well be a happy ending to this story. hopelessly optimistic? probably. our Lord works in extraordinarily mysterious ways.
you are absolutely correct, though. when backed into a corner, some folks will say or do whatever they have to do in order to get the pressure off and then continue later. we've heard this song before, however it either takes guts and humility or deceit and lunacy to make such statements before the entire body of representative delegates at a council of this magnitude.
all our love, support, and prayers that he has actually hit his own rock bottom and can start climbing out with the help that has been offered and encouraged time and again. there may very well be a happy ending to this story. hopelessly optimistic? probably. our Lord works in extraordinarily mysterious ways.
#11
george
on
2011-11-01 21:57
Not true. People do get help when backed into a corner (e.g. "You get help or you have to leave" spoken by a wife to an addicted husband). I know people who have gotten the help they needed because of being given an ultimatum. They remain clean and sober to this day, many years after their crisis moment.
#12
Darlene Sue Johnson
on
2011-11-02 00:16
Anon 3,
Where you see an ulterior motive to Metropolitan Jonah living in Washington, DC, perhaps he chose to follow the canons and live within the boundaries of his diocese at his see ... unlike Bishop TIkhon of the West, who lived in Los Angeles rather than San Francisco, and Metropolitan Herman, who lived in the residence of the Bishop of Eastern PA after Herman was elevated to metropolitan.
Mark,
You have highlight in your editor's comment the heretical ecclessiology of Jonah and the synod, as well as that of many hierarchs in other jurisdictions. This heresy should be subject of the current All-American Council, not the proposed strategic plan that will occupy so much time of the AAC. Determining how this heretical ecclesiology developed, especially in North America, and how to correct it would correct the causes and not just the symptoms that the strategic plan proposes to address.
Where you see an ulterior motive to Metropolitan Jonah living in Washington, DC, perhaps he chose to follow the canons and live within the boundaries of his diocese at his see ... unlike Bishop TIkhon of the West, who lived in Los Angeles rather than San Francisco, and Metropolitan Herman, who lived in the residence of the Bishop of Eastern PA after Herman was elevated to metropolitan.
Mark,
You have highlight in your editor's comment the heretical ecclessiology of Jonah and the synod, as well as that of many hierarchs in other jurisdictions. This heresy should be subject of the current All-American Council, not the proposed strategic plan that will occupy so much time of the AAC. Determining how this heretical ecclesiology developed, especially in North America, and how to correct it would correct the causes and not just the symptoms that the strategic plan proposes to address.
#13
Mark C. Phinney
on
2011-11-02 06:33
I agree. He was ordained for a reason and we should support him, encourage him, help him, and most of all pray for him through this tough time. Not everyone handles stress well, that does not mean he wasn't supposed to be ordained. No one is perfect, but he was ordained for a reason and has done nothing wrong except from what people are saying through judgement. If I'm wrong, please tell me what this man has done so wrong as to be persecuted for wearing the cross he bares.
(Editor's note: I suggest you read any one of the MC reports from the various dioceses; or simply listen to his own words: it was an administrative disaster. )
(Editor's note: I suggest you read any one of the MC reports from the various dioceses; or simply listen to his own words: it was an administrative disaster. )
#14
Happy
on
2011-11-02 07:31
Precisely Mark! And this "disease" is the route cause of all the problems experienced here and by worldwide Orthodoxy as well.
Unfortunately, all the counseling and clinics from here to Siberia won't cure this underlying corruption. Nor is there any indication whatsoever that the OCA bishops "get it, want to get it or, will ever get it." The prime directive has always been, and will always be, preserving their authority at whatever cost to supposedly "guard the Faith," while in the process they are really betraying it--not unlike Judas.
KRT
Unfortunately, all the counseling and clinics from here to Siberia won't cure this underlying corruption. Nor is there any indication whatsoever that the OCA bishops "get it, want to get it or, will ever get it." The prime directive has always been, and will always be, preserving their authority at whatever cost to supposedly "guard the Faith," while in the process they are really betraying it--not unlike Judas.
KRT
#15
Kenneth R. Tobin
on
2011-11-02 07:37
My awareness of the OCA only goes back to the two Metropolitans prior to Metropolitan Jonah, but it appears to me, an outsider, that there is something seriously wrong with a process which leads to three such appointments. A reading of the pastoral epistles indicates that while perfection is not available to the Church of Christ of today, surely there are Christians whose walk is closer to Jesus. Again, realizing perfection is not available and studying many of the hierarchs of all denominations and churches, I am more and more convinced that if the Gospel were a used car, I would not buy what they are selling. I, myself, am blessed with a Bishop, who, while not perfect, is a loving Pastor to all his flock, Bishop Basil. I have come to believe that the Church took a wrong turn sometime during its association with Constantine. I am not sure, but somehow we lost a great deal with the acquisition of wealth and real estate. For each of us, the end of the world is coming soon, and for some of us, sooner than for others. Our leaders must lead us into self denial, humility, and love for each other and for those who are in need.
#16
Max Higgs
on
2011-11-02 08:16
Mark,
If $50 passes it is because people are tired of the BS that Syosset has engaged in the last three years. It also is a sign that having an "all powerful" CCA has not done anything to promote growth in the OCA.
By Statute what the CCA is mandated to do, a small staff and a $50 will suffice. Your example of someone in Syosset stopping an ordination happened because there were people working there at that time who had an institutional history of the OCA. That was wiped away in the purges of 2006. So it is not the number of people who work there but the caliber and most importantly their history of the people in the OCA. That is why they were able to catch that potentially harmful ordination.
(Editor's note: Gee, that was me, and thanks for the kind word. A first. But you are still wrong. If you think All-powerful when you think of Syosset I'll take some of the powerful stuff you're smoking. Syosset lost all its power in 2006 when the former regime was swept away. It is now definately in servant mode; but its hard to be servant when the Master is determined to shut the house. I say give the guys - and gals - a real chance before making a knee-jerk reaction. That didn't work out so well with electing a Metropolitan did it?)
If $50 passes it is because people are tired of the BS that Syosset has engaged in the last three years. It also is a sign that having an "all powerful" CCA has not done anything to promote growth in the OCA.
By Statute what the CCA is mandated to do, a small staff and a $50 will suffice. Your example of someone in Syosset stopping an ordination happened because there were people working there at that time who had an institutional history of the OCA. That was wiped away in the purges of 2006. So it is not the number of people who work there but the caliber and most importantly their history of the people in the OCA. That is why they were able to catch that potentially harmful ordination.
(Editor's note: Gee, that was me, and thanks for the kind word. A first. But you are still wrong. If you think All-powerful when you think of Syosset I'll take some of the powerful stuff you're smoking. Syosset lost all its power in 2006 when the former regime was swept away. It is now definately in servant mode; but its hard to be servant when the Master is determined to shut the house. I say give the guys - and gals - a real chance before making a knee-jerk reaction. That didn't work out so well with electing a Metropolitan did it?)
#17
Anonymous
on
2011-11-02 08:40
Oh the humanity!
Why doesn't he just resign?
Why doesn't he just resign?
#18
Anonymous Coward
on
2011-11-02 10:50
OK. Thank you. I will. That was my lazy attempt at trying to get the information. I personally quit after I realized it was a sabotage, but maybe I'm wrong. I will need to go back in the archives 
#19
Happy
on
2011-11-02 13:01
"Why doesn't he just resign?"
He doesn't resign for the same reason many people in power (Nixon) try to hold on to power. They are told by advisers and sycophants that "it's their enemies out to get them." AND, people like + Jonah believe this! This is why he was instrumental in supporting OCATruth and trashing many. Folks, it's PARANOIA and DELUSION! He needs to be relieved as Primate. A "brushed-over" psych evaluation and then back to trying to impose his own form of OCA on the OCA. Keeping him as Primate will destroy the OCA!
He doesn't resign for the same reason many people in power (Nixon) try to hold on to power. They are told by advisers and sycophants that "it's their enemies out to get them." AND, people like + Jonah believe this! This is why he was instrumental in supporting OCATruth and trashing many. Folks, it's PARANOIA and DELUSION! He needs to be relieved as Primate. A "brushed-over" psych evaluation and then back to trying to impose his own form of OCA on the OCA. Keeping him as Primate will destroy the OCA!
#20
anonymous
on
2011-11-02 13:15
I know from experience that a substance abuse evaluation is not a painful event. Because denial is such a strong component of this deadly disease then the decision for an evaluation is usually a group process.......it has to be.
#21
Michael Brewer
on
2011-11-02 15:51
Yes, the group process, usually a formal intervention, is preferable to being sent to rehab by the judge after spending the night in jail. Actually, it does not make much difference to the afflicted, but his/her potential victims benefit if the offense that would have sent him/her to jail never happens.
#22
cate
on
2011-11-03 08:02
Its a shame if what you say is true that he is only reading a prepared address. If this is the case I lose all of my respect for him. You make him a puppet by saying this.
I really hope what he said was sincere, it is probably the hardest thing for anyone to do is admit that they might be part of a problem. And Kudos for him addressing the elephant in the room of the masses, the perception that he had to go, in a very strong but humbling way. My opinion of him has increased greatly!
However if you believe that this is prepared, that he is only doing this to please the "fools in the synod and chancery" then I have lost any hope in him. Because even if the accusations are untrue he is playing to another's game and is not speaking the truth in love.
I dont know which is true. But, Please! don't defend him anymore, you are ruining his dignity by your defense!
(Editor's note: Of course he reads from a prepared speech. Its a very rare person who can give a 45 minute presentation from memory, especially when it deals with 3 years of events and actions.. Give him kudos for being prepared, rather than just making it up on the spot and misspeaking...)
I really hope what he said was sincere, it is probably the hardest thing for anyone to do is admit that they might be part of a problem. And Kudos for him addressing the elephant in the room of the masses, the perception that he had to go, in a very strong but humbling way. My opinion of him has increased greatly!
However if you believe that this is prepared, that he is only doing this to please the "fools in the synod and chancery" then I have lost any hope in him. Because even if the accusations are untrue he is playing to another's game and is not speaking the truth in love.
I dont know which is true. But, Please! don't defend him anymore, you are ruining his dignity by your defense!
(Editor's note: Of course he reads from a prepared speech. Its a very rare person who can give a 45 minute presentation from memory, especially when it deals with 3 years of events and actions.. Give him kudos for being prepared, rather than just making it up on the spot and misspeaking...)
#23
Reader Michael
on
2011-11-03 19:05
Lord Have Mercy!
An observation from nature: In a feeding frenzy, a wounded shark will turn and even eat his own entrails.
It seems to me that this whole situation boils down to this: Some folks at the last AAC felt that someone else should have gotten the white hat, but didn't. So, in the spirit of sour grapes, now we have chosen up sides, one side feels that Met Jonah should be the Met. The other side feels that their guy ( whoever he may be ) should have the white hat. Both sides are willing to use whatever means possible to ensure that their side is "right" even if it destroys the church in the process. Its all about what "I want", not what Christ wants. This is the CHURCH, not a sporting event! Folks, this is getting way beyond Byzantine and is diving headlong into just plain evil. Division only comes from one place, the devil, and if one is perpetuating division then the master that he serves is quite obvious.
Here is an idea. Since Met. Jonah is to be "evaluated" how about requiring that all of the Synod, the Met. Council, Chancellor, and Deans undergo the same evaluations? How about even parish Priests as well? Sort of "What's good for the goose"...
I wonder what that would reveal? I'll bet it would be a real eye-opener! Maybe then some of these people that live in glass houses would just shut up, thank God and his mercy for the positions that they have, and start doing Christ's work again.
(Editor's note: For once you are neither wise, nor show wisdom in any language, Sophia, if you think any of this trouble is "sour grapes". This has never been about personalities, but actions. Now the Metropolitan publicly admits he has been a disaster, and you say it is all "sour grapes"? Sometimes trying to prevent the captain from steering the ship on the rocks ( even if you fail) is "Christ's work", unless of course you think singing Kum Ba Yah is all we should be doing? Really, get serious. )
An observation from nature: In a feeding frenzy, a wounded shark will turn and even eat his own entrails.
It seems to me that this whole situation boils down to this: Some folks at the last AAC felt that someone else should have gotten the white hat, but didn't. So, in the spirit of sour grapes, now we have chosen up sides, one side feels that Met Jonah should be the Met. The other side feels that their guy ( whoever he may be ) should have the white hat. Both sides are willing to use whatever means possible to ensure that their side is "right" even if it destroys the church in the process. Its all about what "I want", not what Christ wants. This is the CHURCH, not a sporting event! Folks, this is getting way beyond Byzantine and is diving headlong into just plain evil. Division only comes from one place, the devil, and if one is perpetuating division then the master that he serves is quite obvious.
Here is an idea. Since Met. Jonah is to be "evaluated" how about requiring that all of the Synod, the Met. Council, Chancellor, and Deans undergo the same evaluations? How about even parish Priests as well? Sort of "What's good for the goose"...
I wonder what that would reveal? I'll bet it would be a real eye-opener! Maybe then some of these people that live in glass houses would just shut up, thank God and his mercy for the positions that they have, and start doing Christ's work again.
(Editor's note: For once you are neither wise, nor show wisdom in any language, Sophia, if you think any of this trouble is "sour grapes". This has never been about personalities, but actions. Now the Metropolitan publicly admits he has been a disaster, and you say it is all "sour grapes"? Sometimes trying to prevent the captain from steering the ship on the rocks ( even if you fail) is "Christ's work", unless of course you think singing Kum Ba Yah is all we should be doing? Really, get serious. )
#24
Sophia Weisheit
on
2011-11-04 05:24
Metropolitan Jonah does not have a problem with substance abuse, suspected or otherwise.
The issue was that Bishop Benjamin wanted to send Metropolitan Jonah to an an alcohol and drug rehab. Since the Metropolitan does not suffer from alcohol or drug addiction, that made about as much sense as sending him to a maternity hospital for unwed pregnant girls.
Metropolitan Jonah received a psychological evaluation from another source, a fully qualified and licensed one, and was found to be healthy.
I am rather shocked that Mark published your comment without an editorial remark clearing the Metropolitan of that particular ailment.
(Editor's note: You presume facts in evidence that are not, and clearances that have never been given. The issue will begin to be addressed on the 14th. I suggest we can all wait that long before making apodictic statements. )
The issue was that Bishop Benjamin wanted to send Metropolitan Jonah to an an alcohol and drug rehab. Since the Metropolitan does not suffer from alcohol or drug addiction, that made about as much sense as sending him to a maternity hospital for unwed pregnant girls.
Metropolitan Jonah received a psychological evaluation from another source, a fully qualified and licensed one, and was found to be healthy.
I am rather shocked that Mark published your comment without an editorial remark clearing the Metropolitan of that particular ailment.
(Editor's note: You presume facts in evidence that are not, and clearances that have never been given. The issue will begin to be addressed on the 14th. I suggest we can all wait that long before making apodictic statements. )
#25
Cordelia
on
2011-11-04 07:52
(Editor's note: For once you are neither wise, nor show wisdom in any language, Sophia, if you think any of this trouble is "sour grapes"......Well, I do. As for your thoughts on wisdom, I'll take it as a complement that you said "for once"......
This has never been about personalities, but actions...... Well sort of, its personalities looking for any actions to complain about.
Now the Metropolitan publicly admits he has been a disaster, and you say it is all "sour grapes"?..... So, he admits exactly what they have wanted him to admit, and is going to do exactly what they wanted him to do....and they're still not happy. The only thing that will bring them happiness is when someone else gets the "white hat". I may not be as wise as yourself, but from where I sit, thats the way it looks.
Sometimes trying to prevent the captain from steering the ship on the rocks ..... even the best Captain will find it impossible to command a ship with a mutinous crew. Oh, by the way, the Captain doesn't steer the ship, he issues orders to the helmsman who hopefully follows them.
unless of course you think singing Kum Ba Yah is all we should be doing?..... So what is wrong KUM BA YA? ( which is translated "come by here" ) It is an African spiritual and the point of the song is "Come By Here, Lord". Is there something wrong with that wish? The last verse of the song is "Oh, I need you, Lord, kum bay ya" Wow, what a silly song! Kind of sounds like "Even now come Lord Jesus" doesn't it?..... but then be careful of what we ask for, we're liable to get it.
Really, get serious.....I am. I'm watching my Church tear itself apart. Disagreements are a part of human nature. If you have three people in a room you will probably have at least two factions. Even Peter and Paul disagreed, and if I read it right, it was quite a scene!..... but they worked it out and it was done and over with, and they got on with spreading the Gospel. This situation is getting way out of hand and if it doesn't stop it can only end very badly.
Mark, I don't mean to argue with you. I am just frustrated beyond measure and am trying to vent. If I have offended , I humbly ask forgiveness.
(Editor's note: I understand the frustration, and the desire to vent. However, neither justifies falsifying the situation. Only the Truth can set us free, and only looking reality full on, and accepting it however painful, can give us a toehold to work back to health. Sometimes there are not two sides to every story: to say Mussolini made the trains run on time is true, but it is hardly the point. To say the Metropolitan apologized so let's all sing Come By Here, Lord and forget the past three years is dangerous, and foolish - especially when nothing has , as yet, been resolved nor changed.
The Metropolitan has apologized to me personally, and to the entire MC, on four ocassions these past three years - and continued to do exactly that for which he just apologized. Does that make me "jaded"? No, it calls him into further question, not the legitimate, if unanswered concerns, that engendered the apologies. There is only one problem here. The MC got it. The Synod gets it. The Staff lives with it. There are many in the Church who refuse to get it because, well, its called the Buttermelcher Syndrome in politics. Really. It comes from German politics after the last war and flows from the inability of many Germans to admit Hitler was not a demon, or genius, but a madman for whom 45% of the population, seeing the madness in Mein Kampf, still voted for. As Herr Buttermelcher said: "But he has to be a demonic genius who tricked us, because otherwise, that would mean we were complicit in his evil..." Ah, yes, that is the point. Many, indeed, most in Germany of the last generation could not accept that, would not accept that. "It was a conspiracy, it was the pressures of office", etc., the excuses are endless. Hence Hitler was "an evil genius" not just a seedy manipulative politician who used people's fears against them to evil ends.
I am not calling the Metropolitan Hitler, nor evil. But the Buttermelcher Syndrome exists in any situation where large groups cannot admit the truth of their leaders because of what it says about them. Well, let's all wake up and smell the coffee. After 25 years of misconduct and misadministration the OCA in 2008 was shattered in many ways. The people voted and the Synod chose poorly, raising up someone who is unable and unsuited for the office. We can continue the mistake, which by his own admission has been a "disaster" despite the honest help of many, or we can get him into evaluation, and if required, treatment. It is the Synod's decision how long the mistake continues, not ours. That's our hierarchical, monarchical system. But let's not castigate them alone for something for which we all bear responsibility. At the same time, let's not ignore that the problem exists, and hope it goes away on its own. It won't. )
This has never been about personalities, but actions...... Well sort of, its personalities looking for any actions to complain about.
Now the Metropolitan publicly admits he has been a disaster, and you say it is all "sour grapes"?..... So, he admits exactly what they have wanted him to admit, and is going to do exactly what they wanted him to do....and they're still not happy. The only thing that will bring them happiness is when someone else gets the "white hat". I may not be as wise as yourself, but from where I sit, thats the way it looks.
Sometimes trying to prevent the captain from steering the ship on the rocks ..... even the best Captain will find it impossible to command a ship with a mutinous crew. Oh, by the way, the Captain doesn't steer the ship, he issues orders to the helmsman who hopefully follows them.
unless of course you think singing Kum Ba Yah is all we should be doing?..... So what is wrong KUM BA YA? ( which is translated "come by here" ) It is an African spiritual and the point of the song is "Come By Here, Lord". Is there something wrong with that wish? The last verse of the song is "Oh, I need you, Lord, kum bay ya" Wow, what a silly song! Kind of sounds like "Even now come Lord Jesus" doesn't it?..... but then be careful of what we ask for, we're liable to get it.
Really, get serious.....I am. I'm watching my Church tear itself apart. Disagreements are a part of human nature. If you have three people in a room you will probably have at least two factions. Even Peter and Paul disagreed, and if I read it right, it was quite a scene!..... but they worked it out and it was done and over with, and they got on with spreading the Gospel. This situation is getting way out of hand and if it doesn't stop it can only end very badly.
Mark, I don't mean to argue with you. I am just frustrated beyond measure and am trying to vent. If I have offended , I humbly ask forgiveness.
(Editor's note: I understand the frustration, and the desire to vent. However, neither justifies falsifying the situation. Only the Truth can set us free, and only looking reality full on, and accepting it however painful, can give us a toehold to work back to health. Sometimes there are not two sides to every story: to say Mussolini made the trains run on time is true, but it is hardly the point. To say the Metropolitan apologized so let's all sing Come By Here, Lord and forget the past three years is dangerous, and foolish - especially when nothing has , as yet, been resolved nor changed.
The Metropolitan has apologized to me personally, and to the entire MC, on four ocassions these past three years - and continued to do exactly that for which he just apologized. Does that make me "jaded"? No, it calls him into further question, not the legitimate, if unanswered concerns, that engendered the apologies. There is only one problem here. The MC got it. The Synod gets it. The Staff lives with it. There are many in the Church who refuse to get it because, well, its called the Buttermelcher Syndrome in politics. Really. It comes from German politics after the last war and flows from the inability of many Germans to admit Hitler was not a demon, or genius, but a madman for whom 45% of the population, seeing the madness in Mein Kampf, still voted for. As Herr Buttermelcher said: "But he has to be a demonic genius who tricked us, because otherwise, that would mean we were complicit in his evil..." Ah, yes, that is the point. Many, indeed, most in Germany of the last generation could not accept that, would not accept that. "It was a conspiracy, it was the pressures of office", etc., the excuses are endless. Hence Hitler was "an evil genius" not just a seedy manipulative politician who used people's fears against them to evil ends.
I am not calling the Metropolitan Hitler, nor evil. But the Buttermelcher Syndrome exists in any situation where large groups cannot admit the truth of their leaders because of what it says about them. Well, let's all wake up and smell the coffee. After 25 years of misconduct and misadministration the OCA in 2008 was shattered in many ways. The people voted and the Synod chose poorly, raising up someone who is unable and unsuited for the office. We can continue the mistake, which by his own admission has been a "disaster" despite the honest help of many, or we can get him into evaluation, and if required, treatment. It is the Synod's decision how long the mistake continues, not ours. That's our hierarchical, monarchical system. But let's not castigate them alone for something for which we all bear responsibility. At the same time, let's not ignore that the problem exists, and hope it goes away on its own. It won't. )
#26
Anonymous
on
2011-11-04 09:00
Happy,
What is the reason he was ordained? Are you harboring views from your old proddie days as a Calvinist. Is he a member of the "elect"?
Jonah as the met is a disaster. Jonah can be a priest or a monk, ....but as the met of the OCA he has caused and will continue to cause many disturbances.
It is a shame for all those in attendance that he did not step down.
What is the reason he was ordained? Are you harboring views from your old proddie days as a Calvinist. Is he a member of the "elect"?
Jonah as the met is a disaster. Jonah can be a priest or a monk, ....but as the met of the OCA he has caused and will continue to cause many disturbances.
It is a shame for all those in attendance that he did not step down.
#27
George
on
2011-11-04 11:47
Agreed perfectly!
Perhaps it is time to review this Ignatian Ecclesiology - to take a very deep breath, and be prepared to ceremonially and unceremoniously dump whatever of it is from the Imperial Roman tradition, and not from the Jewish Jerusalem Church.
If this is done, I believe the Church, especially the OCA, will be better for it.
Perhaps it is time to review this Ignatian Ecclesiology - to take a very deep breath, and be prepared to ceremonially and unceremoniously dump whatever of it is from the Imperial Roman tradition, and not from the Jewish Jerusalem Church.
If this is done, I believe the Church, especially the OCA, will be better for it.
#28
John
on
2011-11-04 13:32
I'd like to think that people can heal and overcome past failures. Maybe we could just wait and see rather than assuming that he won't cooperate or that it won't work? Metropolitan Jonah might learn from his mistakes and end up doing fine in time. I found the bishops' dedication to working together in spite of their difficulties inspiring.
On another subject--would you consider making a change in how you structure the comments here? I've noticed that more and more often you, as the editor, put your response to a given comment in the comment itself. It makes it hard (especially with the longer insertions) to keep track of who is saying what, and it seems a little unfair to not let a comment stand on its own without your rebuttal being included.
Could you enter your replies as separate comments? It would make the comment section more readable, and make it seem like more of an open forum rather being only a vehicle for the editor's position.
(Editor's note: Thanks for the suggestion, but the issue is now moot. I did not do it earlier as the system does not allow such an option - this was all created a very long time ago, in technology terms, and that option did not exist then.)
On another subject--would you consider making a change in how you structure the comments here? I've noticed that more and more often you, as the editor, put your response to a given comment in the comment itself. It makes it hard (especially with the longer insertions) to keep track of who is saying what, and it seems a little unfair to not let a comment stand on its own without your rebuttal being included.
Could you enter your replies as separate comments? It would make the comment section more readable, and make it seem like more of an open forum rather being only a vehicle for the editor's position.
(Editor's note: Thanks for the suggestion, but the issue is now moot. I did not do it earlier as the system does not allow such an option - this was all created a very long time ago, in technology terms, and that option did not exist then.)
#29
barbara
on
2011-11-04 14:50
Here is an idea. Since Met. Jonah is to be "evaluated" how about requiring that all of the Synod, the Met. Council, Chancellor, and Deans undergo the same evaluations? How about even parish Priests as well? Sort of "What's good for the goose"...
I wonder what that would reveal? I'll bet it would be a real eye-opener! Maybe then some of these people that live in glass houses would just shut up, thank God and his mercy for the positions that they have, and start doing Christ's work again.
****Sophia, I know at least one mission that would have benefitted from such an evaluation or intervention. Those missions are dead now, thanks to the people who covered up for the priesst and didn't listen to the people.
I wonder what that would reveal? I'll bet it would be a real eye-opener! Maybe then some of these people that live in glass houses would just shut up, thank God and his mercy for the positions that they have, and start doing Christ's work again.
****Sophia, I know at least one mission that would have benefitted from such an evaluation or intervention. Those missions are dead now, thanks to the people who covered up for the priesst and didn't listen to the people.
#30
Anonymous
on
2011-11-04 20:04
Anonymous 6,
You, and it seems many who support(ed) the reduction of the assessment, confuse the hierarchs with "Syosset." While the hierarchs are an integral part of "Syosset," where does the power of "Syosset" lie? Not with the Central Church Administration (CCA) but with the Synod and its individual hierarchs. While there has been a complete turnover in the senior members of the CCA over the past 4-5 years -- two chancellors, the secretary, two treasurers -- 7 of the 10 active hierarchs took office before Metropolitan Herman resigned. The problems of the past 3-4 years have been with the hierarchs, their heretical ecclesiology, and their unwillingness to cast away their self-indulgence and take their crosses to properly deal with the problems within the Synod and at the territorial church level. Reducing the funds available for the activities of the territorial church to discipline the hierarchs does just the opposite of what you desire: it further empowers each of the imperial hierarchs. We, the territorial church, need to focus on correcting the heretical ecclesiology that has taken root and call each hierarch back to the true servant-leadership of the episcopacy.
You, and it seems many who support(ed) the reduction of the assessment, confuse the hierarchs with "Syosset." While the hierarchs are an integral part of "Syosset," where does the power of "Syosset" lie? Not with the Central Church Administration (CCA) but with the Synod and its individual hierarchs. While there has been a complete turnover in the senior members of the CCA over the past 4-5 years -- two chancellors, the secretary, two treasurers -- 7 of the 10 active hierarchs took office before Metropolitan Herman resigned. The problems of the past 3-4 years have been with the hierarchs, their heretical ecclesiology, and their unwillingness to cast away their self-indulgence and take their crosses to properly deal with the problems within the Synod and at the territorial church level. Reducing the funds available for the activities of the territorial church to discipline the hierarchs does just the opposite of what you desire: it further empowers each of the imperial hierarchs. We, the territorial church, need to focus on correcting the heretical ecclesiology that has taken root and call each hierarch back to the true servant-leadership of the episcopacy.
#31
Mark C. Phinney
on
2011-11-05 06:35
Hello friends:
Please allow me to switch from criticizing the headline writing department to a direct disagreement with the Editor Himself on two key points.
First of all he waxes verbal (not eloquent - there's a huge difference between the two, folks) with allusions to two of the biggest miscreants of the 20th century, if not human history. Hitler and Mussolini, and then tells us he's not comparing Met. Jonah to them. That denial rings awfully hollow, Mark.
Especially in light of the second problem. the flat, simplistic and patently false statement "There is only one problem here." Our Advocate for the Accountability of Others falls into a pit of his own digging with this statement. The very obvious problems with OCA governance predate Met. Jonah's conversion, and by decades preceded his elevation to episcopal offices.
There are a whole lot of problems. folks, including but not limited to the Statute, and the sooner Mark stops misdirecting us into personalizing this and focusing on a single personality, albeit the top one, the better able the Church as a whole, as a single Body in Christ, will be to truly look at itself and play a realistic role in its own healing.
Two times ago it was "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Theodosius and when we get rid of him ..." Last time it was "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Herman) and when he is gone there will be a Cadillac in every driveway and ...." Now Mark sings from that same old tried and untrue, sheet music "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Jonah) and....blah, blah, blah..."
When we look closely it is the Devil Himself (Diabolos, the Accuser) who is the author of that tune, still holds the copyright, and collects the royalties each time it is performed. I am fond of citing that wonderful old 1970 Pogo Possum cartoon for the first Earth Day in which Pogo stands by a large tree in a forest surrounded by all kinds of human refuse with the caption"we have me the enemy and he is us."
"There is only on problem" is the kind of damaging reductionism that the Republicans and Democrats sell us every four years or so, and there we are more or less forced to pick between one side's oversimplifications or the other. Here, hopefully, people will discern a larger range of choices that involve correcting themselves as well as others, and figure out who (themselves) to start with.
With time I have come to believe that the critics of Met. Jonah's leadership style have excellent points to make and that he is a very, very good man in a position which, for better or worse, makes major demands upon him in the areas of life where he is probably unlikely to do much more or better than he has already. Instead of demonizing him or indulging in magical thinking that has been disproven over and over (get rid of this guy and it will be lollipops and roses) we need to work with him to find the ways in which his demonstrated goodness will best serve the Church ....and least grieve him and others.
"There is only one problem" is only a recipe for repeating the past disasters (of which Mark and so many of us who get into this sort of stuff were probably assistant cooks). I will believe in the sincerity and promise of the call for Accountability when Mark and the named and anonymous "one problem" chorus start publicly accepting the group's share of that accountability, and at least considering their own parts.
love,
Fr. George
Please allow me to switch from criticizing the headline writing department to a direct disagreement with the Editor Himself on two key points.
First of all he waxes verbal (not eloquent - there's a huge difference between the two, folks) with allusions to two of the biggest miscreants of the 20th century, if not human history. Hitler and Mussolini, and then tells us he's not comparing Met. Jonah to them. That denial rings awfully hollow, Mark.
Especially in light of the second problem. the flat, simplistic and patently false statement "There is only one problem here." Our Advocate for the Accountability of Others falls into a pit of his own digging with this statement. The very obvious problems with OCA governance predate Met. Jonah's conversion, and by decades preceded his elevation to episcopal offices.
There are a whole lot of problems. folks, including but not limited to the Statute, and the sooner Mark stops misdirecting us into personalizing this and focusing on a single personality, albeit the top one, the better able the Church as a whole, as a single Body in Christ, will be to truly look at itself and play a realistic role in its own healing.
Two times ago it was "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Theodosius and when we get rid of him ..." Last time it was "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Herman) and when he is gone there will be a Cadillac in every driveway and ...." Now Mark sings from that same old tried and untrue, sheet music "There is only one problem (i.e. Met. Jonah) and....blah, blah, blah..."
When we look closely it is the Devil Himself (Diabolos, the Accuser) who is the author of that tune, still holds the copyright, and collects the royalties each time it is performed. I am fond of citing that wonderful old 1970 Pogo Possum cartoon for the first Earth Day in which Pogo stands by a large tree in a forest surrounded by all kinds of human refuse with the caption"we have me the enemy and he is us."
"There is only on problem" is the kind of damaging reductionism that the Republicans and Democrats sell us every four years or so, and there we are more or less forced to pick between one side's oversimplifications or the other. Here, hopefully, people will discern a larger range of choices that involve correcting themselves as well as others, and figure out who (themselves) to start with.
With time I have come to believe that the critics of Met. Jonah's leadership style have excellent points to make and that he is a very, very good man in a position which, for better or worse, makes major demands upon him in the areas of life where he is probably unlikely to do much more or better than he has already. Instead of demonizing him or indulging in magical thinking that has been disproven over and over (get rid of this guy and it will be lollipops and roses) we need to work with him to find the ways in which his demonstrated goodness will best serve the Church ....and least grieve him and others.
"There is only one problem" is only a recipe for repeating the past disasters (of which Mark and so many of us who get into this sort of stuff were probably assistant cooks). I will believe in the sincerity and promise of the call for Accountability when Mark and the named and anonymous "one problem" chorus start publicly accepting the group's share of that accountability, and at least considering their own parts.
love,
Fr. George
#32
Fr. George Washburn
on
2011-11-05 06:41
very empathic. remind me not to get therapy from you.
#33
Anonymous
on
2011-11-05 20:32
I was not insinuating that our Metropolitan has a substance abuse problem. In fact, a one week stay at a facility like that would be painful for somebody who does. Withdrawals kick in very quickly, so again I say that for the Metropolitan it should not be painful. WHY then not just comply with Bishop Benjamin and not stir up more drama for satan to work with.
#34
Michael Brewer
on
2011-11-06 11:49
The Metropolitan needs to get himself over a WE vs. THEM mentality.
He needs to forget about some imaginery culture war drummed up by people that make a living on such nonsense.
He needs to recognize his critics are his friends. Lincoln mastered this well as President.
He needs to stop worrying about Obama and the left.
The real destruction in the OCA is related to US politics and the political pundits making a living off our non-Christ centered ideologies. Christ wasn't anti-gay, nor was he pro-gay marriage.
...
The Metropolitan needs to stop being exorcised by the world and moving to Washington DC is not a move in that direction imo.
Call me a doubting Thomas. I expect the Metropolitan will have a difficult time. I doubt the training program will be like AA and convince him he can't hang out with his drinking buddies anymore. The Kool Aid will be hard to stop taking.
Even in his address, he discusses a 'relentless barrage of criticism'. Criticism is supposed to help if you let it.
The OCA isn't made up of people that want to destroy him. Even in my doubting his ability to succeed because of his 'friends' and their KoolAid. It is my hope that he will spend more time eating halupki with his 'enemies'.
He needs to forget about some imaginery culture war drummed up by people that make a living on such nonsense.
He needs to recognize his critics are his friends. Lincoln mastered this well as President.
He needs to stop worrying about Obama and the left.
The real destruction in the OCA is related to US politics and the political pundits making a living off our non-Christ centered ideologies. Christ wasn't anti-gay, nor was he pro-gay marriage.
...
The Metropolitan needs to stop being exorcised by the world and moving to Washington DC is not a move in that direction imo.
Call me a doubting Thomas. I expect the Metropolitan will have a difficult time. I doubt the training program will be like AA and convince him he can't hang out with his drinking buddies anymore. The Kool Aid will be hard to stop taking.
Even in his address, he discusses a 'relentless barrage of criticism'. Criticism is supposed to help if you let it.
The OCA isn't made up of people that want to destroy him. Even in my doubting his ability to succeed because of his 'friends' and their KoolAid. It is my hope that he will spend more time eating halupki with his 'enemies'.
#35
Daniel E. Fall
on
2011-11-06 13:28
Mark,
It seems to me that you are blurring the distinction between "editor" and "newsmaker" by your lengthy replies to individual comments. This is not to say that you should not correct innaccuracies. But the introduction of theory such as "Buttermicher Syndrome" seems to me better suited to an editorial or reflection for which you are clearly the author, and to which others may comment should they feel it appropriate. I personally believe I am better served as a reader by a "clean" distinction.
It seems to me that you are blurring the distinction between "editor" and "newsmaker" by your lengthy replies to individual comments. This is not to say that you should not correct innaccuracies. But the introduction of theory such as "Buttermicher Syndrome" seems to me better suited to an editorial or reflection for which you are clearly the author, and to which others may comment should they feel it appropriate. I personally believe I am better served as a reader by a "clean" distinction.
#36
M. Stankovich
on
2011-11-06 19:07
There was a problem when another Council put forth the name of a bishop for metropolitan knowing there were accusations of sexual molestation against him. Now those accusations will be heard in a Winnepeg Court about the same time the present metropolitan is going for 'evaluation'.
The post Santa Fe Evaluation that was done on Met. Jonah was apparently not with enough legal backing and creditability for the upcoming court case of another bishop, Archbishop Seraphim, and who was monitoring this situation. So the bishops are fussing for something else to save their backs and such.
Look for yourselves at the internet articles involving St. Luke’s Institute in Silver Springs, Maryland (predominately for RC Clergy) and make your own assessment.
My thoughts are the problem is still being avoided by the OCA of sexually predatory clergy. One needs to ask the question how these OCA bishops become bishops?
My thoughts are the bishops only put forth nominees who are more certain to cover the backs of the others. This continues the cycle of abuse. It does nothing to leading to truth, or making a proper repentance and giving aid to victims of abuse.
The post Santa Fe Evaluation that was done on Met. Jonah was apparently not with enough legal backing and creditability for the upcoming court case of another bishop, Archbishop Seraphim, and who was monitoring this situation. So the bishops are fussing for something else to save their backs and such.
Look for yourselves at the internet articles involving St. Luke’s Institute in Silver Springs, Maryland (predominately for RC Clergy) and make your own assessment.
My thoughts are the problem is still being avoided by the OCA of sexually predatory clergy. One needs to ask the question how these OCA bishops become bishops?
My thoughts are the bishops only put forth nominees who are more certain to cover the backs of the others. This continues the cycle of abuse. It does nothing to leading to truth, or making a proper repentance and giving aid to victims of abuse.
#37
anon
on
2011-11-06 19:47
that's your opinion. Not the consensus of all the OCA. Had it been the consensus that would have happened.
#38
Anonymous
on
2011-11-06 19:48
I just read this story and my heart was broken. I'm still weeping.
But God's power is made perfect in weakness.
I greatly admire Met. Jonah's courage, candor, and humility.
Whatever the outcome of the evaluation, let us pray for him.
But God's power is made perfect in weakness.
I greatly admire Met. Jonah's courage, candor, and humility.
Whatever the outcome of the evaluation, let us pray for him.
#39
Jack
on
2011-11-06 20:01
Nothing to change - Same ol' skata!
#40
Anonymous
on
2011-11-07 18:21
The author does not allow comments to this entry
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