Tuesday, November 28. 2006
Interview with Archbishop Job
You responses, comments, etc. to the Archbishop's remarks are welcome.
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A great post. Though the interview reveals that +Job has been reticent to challenge the status quo in the past, it is quite refreshing to see that he is now so determined to make things better. May God grant him many years!
#1
Zach Borichevsky
on
2006-11-28 17:25
I read Archbishop Job's interview with Mark with tears, and more tears.
Dear Vladyka speaks about a façade being built up through the years.
I see this too. We need to be at the heart of what really matters and pay less attenton to marketing and publicity.
Our archpastor wants to do what is right to take responsibility, to do the things of repentance and to be right before God.
This keeps me mindful of my own duties of what I need too to do to make a
proper repentance for all of my life circumstances.
The legal-ease which was defining the circumstances of having questions answered does not impress him as a bishop of the Holy Synod. His leadership goals are the rebuilding of a Christ centered community as per the Gospel and not the world standards.
I need this in my life.
I am thankful for Vladyka Job and his earnest desire to be honest and truthful.
O God who sees all things and knows the heart of each one, help us now to
Reorganize, Rebuild, and Restructure a Community of love and faithfulness
for which we can work to do Your holy will.
Matushka Carol
St. Paraskeva House Association
Dear Vladyka speaks about a façade being built up through the years.
I see this too. We need to be at the heart of what really matters and pay less attenton to marketing and publicity.
Our archpastor wants to do what is right to take responsibility, to do the things of repentance and to be right before God.
This keeps me mindful of my own duties of what I need too to do to make a
proper repentance for all of my life circumstances.
The legal-ease which was defining the circumstances of having questions answered does not impress him as a bishop of the Holy Synod. His leadership goals are the rebuilding of a Christ centered community as per the Gospel and not the world standards.
I need this in my life.
I am thankful for Vladyka Job and his earnest desire to be honest and truthful.
O God who sees all things and knows the heart of each one, help us now to
Reorganize, Rebuild, and Restructure a Community of love and faithfulness
for which we can work to do Your holy will.
Matushka Carol
St. Paraskeva House Association
#2
Matushka Carol
on
2006-11-28 18:09
After years of the same promises and lies can we believe in anything? On Dec. 13 we will all be scratching our heads and asking why did nothing happen again. Must we wait for Met. Herman and Kucynda to go? I guess so.
this posting is most gratifying to read, a blessing from vladyka Job guess we all fully realize by now that the defense attorneys are in complete command of Syosset, and the only manifestations we are likely to see are the limited disbursements of the proceeds of the new $2,000,000 indebtedness that the central administration has incurred. we will no doubt be expecting to see an attempted parcelling and sale of the Griswold estate upon which the chancery sits
1 John, chapter 3....."But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth"
1 John, chapter 3....."But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth"
#4
luke
on
2006-11-28 19:42
Dear Bishop Job, Sunday we heard Father Robert Arida quote a line of poetry written by a friend, "Truth without love is a lie, and love without truth is hatred." You have written, spoken and done the truth with love, and we can hope that our other hierarchs will as well. But the kind of love often called for by those unwilling to hear the truth is indeed hatred, for Christ, for His Church and for His people. Thank you, Alice
#5
Alice Carter
on
2006-11-28 19:55
Archbishop Job has demonstrated by his words and actions why he was and is so reviled by the forces opposing reform and truth in the OCA. Here, at least, is one bishop willing to lead the Church out of the morass in which it finds itself. Will others follow?
KRT
KRT
#6
Kenneth R. Tobin
on
2006-11-28 21:09
To His Eminence, Abp JOB:
Not from the formality of protocol, but from the depth of my heart, I say to you, 'Eis polla eti, Despota!' Please know that you have have the RESPECT, LOVE and PRAYERS of so many faithful Orthodox who recognise in you a true pastor - one who is willng to admit his own failings and do something - something that really means something, not just a show of public prostrations. Thank you!
Not from the formality of protocol, but from the depth of my heart, I say to you, 'Eis polla eti, Despota!' Please know that you have have the RESPECT, LOVE and PRAYERS of so many faithful Orthodox who recognise in you a true pastor - one who is willng to admit his own failings and do something - something that really means something, not just a show of public prostrations. Thank you!
#7
Sine Nomine
on
2006-11-28 22:05
Eis polla, eti Despota!
The words of His Eminence, especially at the end about security versus truth, are chillingly resonant of the confusion many are under in the USA (including me, I'm no exception). Very sadly the OCA has lost much of its salt. May the Lord shake some fresh salt on us.
Lord, have mercy!
Rdr. Alexander
The words of His Eminence, especially at the end about security versus truth, are chillingly resonant of the confusion many are under in the USA (including me, I'm no exception). Very sadly the OCA has lost much of its salt. May the Lord shake some fresh salt on us.
Lord, have mercy!
Rdr. Alexander
#8
Rdr. Alexander Langley
on
2006-11-29 08:22
A wonderful and insightful interview....thank you mark!!!! I can only hope that Herman and Kucynda will be gone ASAP, we need leadership like Archbishop Job!
#9
Thomas Langley
on
2006-11-29 09:04
"It was a facade, no one had the courage to speak out, and so we were happier with our security rather than the truth."
My dearest hope is that Bishop JOB is able to inspire the MC and Holy Synod to embrace truth.
My greatest fear is that the lesson those "in power" [as if we have any power other than the cross -- and the power of the cross is death to all our worldly vanities, securities, and appearances] have taken from all this is that the crisis and mess we're in now is what results from letting the truth out, instead of understanding that the crisis and mess are the product of covering up the truth all these years.
Rebecca
[wondering if Alice, above, reversed the quote from the poem because "the truth without love is hatred and the love without truth is lies" makes more sense to me.]
My dearest hope is that Bishop JOB is able to inspire the MC and Holy Synod to embrace truth.
My greatest fear is that the lesson those "in power" [as if we have any power other than the cross -- and the power of the cross is death to all our worldly vanities, securities, and appearances] have taken from all this is that the crisis and mess we're in now is what results from letting the truth out, instead of understanding that the crisis and mess are the product of covering up the truth all these years.
Rebecca
[wondering if Alice, above, reversed the quote from the poem because "the truth without love is hatred and the love without truth is lies" makes more sense to me.]
#10
Rebecca Matovic
on
2006-11-29 09:56
Agreed Kenneth.
However, where were the other bishops when it came time to come to the defense of the Archbishop when the bullying tactics of +Tikhon and +Nikolai were in full swing during the spring session of the Holy Synod? They remained silent.
Are we really supposed to believe that an investigative committee made up of 3 bishops would have accomplished anything? They wouldn't have had a clue on where to begin such an investigation.
Let's face it, perhaps they didn't realize how much control the former Chancellor had over every single aspect of the Church, but the fact of the matter remains, they all allowed business to continue as usual for many years.
If the last All American Council was such a sharade, then why didn't the Synod address the ongoing nonsense and collectively confront the Chancellor on the spot?
In addition, I thought a representative of the accounting firm had already made a presentation to the Synod with regard to the findings of their part of the investigation?
If true, then they must be aware of more details than they wish to admit too.
The only aspect of Archbishop Job's interview I totally disagree with is the fact that the Proskauer Rose alternative was the only way to go. An internal investigation would have been nonproductive and a complete waste of time.
However, I respect his courage and his willingness to see this through till the end.
Let's see what PR says at the December meeting.
However, where were the other bishops when it came time to come to the defense of the Archbishop when the bullying tactics of +Tikhon and +Nikolai were in full swing during the spring session of the Holy Synod? They remained silent.
Are we really supposed to believe that an investigative committee made up of 3 bishops would have accomplished anything? They wouldn't have had a clue on where to begin such an investigation.
Let's face it, perhaps they didn't realize how much control the former Chancellor had over every single aspect of the Church, but the fact of the matter remains, they all allowed business to continue as usual for many years.
If the last All American Council was such a sharade, then why didn't the Synod address the ongoing nonsense and collectively confront the Chancellor on the spot?
In addition, I thought a representative of the accounting firm had already made a presentation to the Synod with regard to the findings of their part of the investigation?
If true, then they must be aware of more details than they wish to admit too.
The only aspect of Archbishop Job's interview I totally disagree with is the fact that the Proskauer Rose alternative was the only way to go. An internal investigation would have been nonproductive and a complete waste of time.
However, I respect his courage and his willingness to see this through till the end.
Let's see what PR says at the December meeting.
#11
Michael Geeza
on
2006-11-29 11:34
Excellent work. Can you also interview the rest of the Holy Synod?
#12
Stephen Ullstrom
on
2006-11-29 14:14
This OCA house appears to have been built on shifting sand. The blind are leading the blind. This situation is screaming for Godly leadership. It would appear that God must start speaking through donkeys before we will listen. I believe the drive for respectability in the OCA created a kind of narcissism that built this house of cards. The "art of looking good" seems to have dictated most decisions rather than what was good, and right, and true. This drive to build the OCA Potemkin Village of Respectability seems to have led to corruption in one form or another at every level. Can a corrupt system heal itself?
#13
Anon.
on
2006-11-29 17:17
I was disappointed in the interview with Job as much as the responses I've read here. I really wish the questions had been more about the future. The past is important to the extent we learn from it and not repeat its mistakes and if possible, have great memories (not here).
More specifically, what is the remedial action plan for a failed 2006 audit? The OCA still has not produced, to my knowledge, an accepted balance sheet and it is December, 2006. The absence of an accepted balance sheet will result in another failed audit. What then?
The 1999 bylaw needs to be repealed, yet Abp. Job, nor any other member of the Synod has gotten this on any agenda that I know of... This bylaw was clearly created with the intent to shield the church and its civil lawbreakers from auditors and it failed early on as audits were not successful under this bylaw way back then. Not only did the audits fail, but noone in the Synod brought this matter back to the table for repeal. Why has this not happened?
Many years. 7 years later, nothing. God grant us many years of patience?
If the 12/13 meeting results in anything, part of its agenda should be discussing repealing this bylaw which was clearly part of a hidden agenda. Part of the hidden agenda that results in what should be nothing short of full humiliation (not humility) on the part of every Synod member. If not repealed (because of pridefulness on the part of the Synod); it should at least be amended so that the amounts are clear and capped and that an auditor would be able to audit the accounts as needed. Further, if allowed, a discretionary account should never result in an audit failure without someone getting fired on the spot.
If this language is not even attempted to change, how dare anyone glorify or salute any of our Bishops of today's church.
How shameful that a simple person like myself even need say it. I don't even like visiting this website, but the need for outside perspectives is so vividly clear.
The OCA moves more slowly than the dinosaurs who went extinct years ago.
For those people that find our comments here a wasted effort, where is the effort from within to change this disaster of a law passed 7 years ago that resulted in failure 7 years ago? Or rather, resulted in a successful hiding of misdeeds in the church 7 years ago and is still in force today.
Until this bylaw gets zapped or modified, the OCA will remain in disgrace in my eyes.
More specifically, what is the remedial action plan for a failed 2006 audit? The OCA still has not produced, to my knowledge, an accepted balance sheet and it is December, 2006. The absence of an accepted balance sheet will result in another failed audit. What then?
The 1999 bylaw needs to be repealed, yet Abp. Job, nor any other member of the Synod has gotten this on any agenda that I know of... This bylaw was clearly created with the intent to shield the church and its civil lawbreakers from auditors and it failed early on as audits were not successful under this bylaw way back then. Not only did the audits fail, but noone in the Synod brought this matter back to the table for repeal. Why has this not happened?
Many years. 7 years later, nothing. God grant us many years of patience?
If the 12/13 meeting results in anything, part of its agenda should be discussing repealing this bylaw which was clearly part of a hidden agenda. Part of the hidden agenda that results in what should be nothing short of full humiliation (not humility) on the part of every Synod member. If not repealed (because of pridefulness on the part of the Synod); it should at least be amended so that the amounts are clear and capped and that an auditor would be able to audit the accounts as needed. Further, if allowed, a discretionary account should never result in an audit failure without someone getting fired on the spot.
If this language is not even attempted to change, how dare anyone glorify or salute any of our Bishops of today's church.
How shameful that a simple person like myself even need say it. I don't even like visiting this website, but the need for outside perspectives is so vividly clear.
The OCA moves more slowly than the dinosaurs who went extinct years ago.
For those people that find our comments here a wasted effort, where is the effort from within to change this disaster of a law passed 7 years ago that resulted in failure 7 years ago? Or rather, resulted in a successful hiding of misdeeds in the church 7 years ago and is still in force today.
Until this bylaw gets zapped or modified, the OCA will remain in disgrace in my eyes.
#14
Daniel E. Fall
on
2006-12-01 07:49
His Eminence's comments should finally put to rest all the suggestions that this is all a matter of idle gossip. After reading the interview, how in the world can anyone not line up to support this humble man of God?
#15
Robert Vasilios Wachter
on
2006-12-01 08:40
I have a different take on ALL of our Bishops and Metropolitans. They ALL have been self serving and None deserve a pat on the back. As I have said once before, it has taken Bishop Job, twenty two years to join the CHOIRand this was at the request of some lay people.Since this web site started, only recently have other Bishops, learned to sing.
Steve Babish
ST. JAMES---BROTHER OF THE LORD
KANSAS CITY, MO.
Steve Babish
ST. JAMES---BROTHER OF THE LORD
KANSAS CITY, MO.
How refreshing to read the interview with Bishop Job. I converted to Orthodoxy over 30 years ago and this is the first time I would actually be interested in attending an All American Council in 2007. I have never felt one could speak openly in the OCA. It seems as though there has been an unwritten rule of silent compliance in all things - it is better not to speak up and cause any consternation - everything is perfect when there is no conflict. I cannot think of a more unhealthy situation and must repent that I have been a part of the problem by fearing what others think of me and the dreaded "thou shall not judge" axiom. It is amazing how Satan takes the words of our Lord out of context to silence healthy debate and yes, even controlled conflict. Its all a part of being a close family - something very essential to being truly Orthodox.
#17
Rich
on
2006-12-01 14:41
I've agreed with nearly every post you've made her RVW, but not this one.
It isn't as simple as standing behind Abp. Job or not. The facts are that Abp. Job doesn't seem to be very competant in matters of financial management and I believe he has said as much. I believe his intentions in this matter are decent, but less than stellar.
I'm curious as to why Abp. Job is the "keeper of the tape", and why he did not volunteer it to any civil authorities. Not sure why anyone would salute him with this Scarlet letter in his hands. Why would he want or accept it? If it shows something illegal, how would he support the reassignment of a wrongdoer in the priesthood? Was Fr. Kondratick simply trying to get money back because the OCA was drowning in expenses or was he pilfering? Maybe we'll learn about it in 10 years if we are lucky.
I'm curious whether Abp. Job saw the compilations of the OCA since 2001 or not or whether he didn't really pay much attention to them. So far noone has made these public. Probably because they show gross financial mismanagement year after year in a bright light. If Job is doing so many great things, curious why revealing this detail hasn't been done by him. I've said in the past, these answer "Are the allegations true or false?". So, really, he should have known the answer to his own question.
It is a lot for the diocese of the Midwest to put on Abp. Job a decision about the withholding of assessments. Hopefully the objectives are clear enough. I'm concerned they are not. Hopefully Abp. Job will read my criticisms here as I believe they are constructive.
I'm very concerned the church will not have a successful audit in 2006 since it has not produced a 2005 balance sheet that I know of to date. This issue really needs to be discussed now as well and I would hope it gets on the December 13 agenda, otherwise when it comes time to make a decision about assessments, Abp. Job is going to be in a very bad spot. So I'll preface "standing behind him" with that concern. Rather than next March getting here and the audit being delayed until June or July and then finally a report of no success or something less than an unqualified opinion....and then our Bishop in a terrible decision making situation.
Also, the repealing/modifying of the 1999 bylaw and the likelihood or unlikelihood of a successful audit should be discussions of the Joint body.
If I missed something along the way where someone said we'd have a high likelihood of a successful audit in 2006, anyone, please let me know. Without a 2005 balance sheet, its pretty unlikely any auditor will give an unqualified opinion on our financial statements in 2006, yet noone has discussed this that I'm aware of. Is success going to be a qualified opinion, limited to 2006 only? Would Job accept this and not withhold assessments, even though this is a severe limitation? Would any auditor go this far on a qualified opinion?
-a member of the Diocese of the Midwest
It isn't as simple as standing behind Abp. Job or not. The facts are that Abp. Job doesn't seem to be very competant in matters of financial management and I believe he has said as much. I believe his intentions in this matter are decent, but less than stellar.
I'm curious as to why Abp. Job is the "keeper of the tape", and why he did not volunteer it to any civil authorities. Not sure why anyone would salute him with this Scarlet letter in his hands. Why would he want or accept it? If it shows something illegal, how would he support the reassignment of a wrongdoer in the priesthood? Was Fr. Kondratick simply trying to get money back because the OCA was drowning in expenses or was he pilfering? Maybe we'll learn about it in 10 years if we are lucky.
I'm curious whether Abp. Job saw the compilations of the OCA since 2001 or not or whether he didn't really pay much attention to them. So far noone has made these public. Probably because they show gross financial mismanagement year after year in a bright light. If Job is doing so many great things, curious why revealing this detail hasn't been done by him. I've said in the past, these answer "Are the allegations true or false?". So, really, he should have known the answer to his own question.
It is a lot for the diocese of the Midwest to put on Abp. Job a decision about the withholding of assessments. Hopefully the objectives are clear enough. I'm concerned they are not. Hopefully Abp. Job will read my criticisms here as I believe they are constructive.
I'm very concerned the church will not have a successful audit in 2006 since it has not produced a 2005 balance sheet that I know of to date. This issue really needs to be discussed now as well and I would hope it gets on the December 13 agenda, otherwise when it comes time to make a decision about assessments, Abp. Job is going to be in a very bad spot. So I'll preface "standing behind him" with that concern. Rather than next March getting here and the audit being delayed until June or July and then finally a report of no success or something less than an unqualified opinion....and then our Bishop in a terrible decision making situation.
Also, the repealing/modifying of the 1999 bylaw and the likelihood or unlikelihood of a successful audit should be discussions of the Joint body.
If I missed something along the way where someone said we'd have a high likelihood of a successful audit in 2006, anyone, please let me know. Without a 2005 balance sheet, its pretty unlikely any auditor will give an unqualified opinion on our financial statements in 2006, yet noone has discussed this that I'm aware of. Is success going to be a qualified opinion, limited to 2006 only? Would Job accept this and not withhold assessments, even though this is a severe limitation? Would any auditor go this far on a qualified opinion?
-a member of the Diocese of the Midwest
#18
Daniel E. Fall
on
2006-12-01 16:49
Dear Mark,
I would like to complement you on the interview with His Eminence Archbishop Job. ...
As for His Eminence I can say "Eis polla, eti Despota!"
It is obvious that + Job is doing the best he can to see the truth coming from the whole mess. It looks like "ONE FLOWER" DOES NOT MEAN THE SPRING SEASON IS HERE. It is very clear that + Job is the only one who is speaking truthfully and responsibly about this crisis.
It is a shame just thinking about the other members of the OCA Synod in saying nothing or hiding their head into the sand. It is obvious that the cover up practices of the OCA Synod & Central Administration is very well rooted and it would be hard to uproot such a practice and see the entire mess cleaned.
Juts remember how the Greek Archdiocese in America kicked out Spiridon the former Archbishop. It is nothing impossible to see MH out of his position, out of this mess and see the things going on smoothly, just for the good of the Church.
We should know that the OCA is not the Orthodox Church "OF AMERICA" ... it is the former Russian metropolia and some other allies ... It is embarrasing to see the OCA hierarchs joining to the other Orthodox Church hierarchs and to feel irresponsible for the OCA mess.
The WRONG practices used by the OCA up to this time and not yet erradicated give us the opportunity to think about Stalinism, Bolshevism, Machiavelism, Dictatorial abuse of power, etc ... common to the former communist regime (s).
Why don't we give AN ULTIMATUM to MH and his cleaque to go for the good of the Church and our American Orthodoxy?
The priests of the OCA are responsible for the OCA mess. How many OCA priests did post something? ... And WHY so?
Chirst the Lord cannod be betrayed and His BEST GOSPEL cannot be replaced by the best practices. There are so many other Christian denominations on the North American continent watching the entire OCA circus.
.....
Everyone hopes that the upcoming meeting of the OCA Synod and the MC will bring good news for everyone, and some changes should be made. The irresponsible must go as soon as possible. Their place can be taken by suitable people. Most and foremost MH should go first.
Is anyone worry about any priest or hierarch going to jail? There will be no justice served if NONE will go to jail. Christ cannot be betrayed for another 25 - 50 years, and then again "best practices".
Hope to hear the good news by December 18, 2006 about the Syosset changes.
An Orthodox faithful from Diocese of the Midwest.
I would like to complement you on the interview with His Eminence Archbishop Job. ...
As for His Eminence I can say "Eis polla, eti Despota!"
It is obvious that + Job is doing the best he can to see the truth coming from the whole mess. It looks like "ONE FLOWER" DOES NOT MEAN THE SPRING SEASON IS HERE. It is very clear that + Job is the only one who is speaking truthfully and responsibly about this crisis.
It is a shame just thinking about the other members of the OCA Synod in saying nothing or hiding their head into the sand. It is obvious that the cover up practices of the OCA Synod & Central Administration is very well rooted and it would be hard to uproot such a practice and see the entire mess cleaned.
Juts remember how the Greek Archdiocese in America kicked out Spiridon the former Archbishop. It is nothing impossible to see MH out of his position, out of this mess and see the things going on smoothly, just for the good of the Church.
We should know that the OCA is not the Orthodox Church "OF AMERICA" ... it is the former Russian metropolia and some other allies ... It is embarrasing to see the OCA hierarchs joining to the other Orthodox Church hierarchs and to feel irresponsible for the OCA mess.
The WRONG practices used by the OCA up to this time and not yet erradicated give us the opportunity to think about Stalinism, Bolshevism, Machiavelism, Dictatorial abuse of power, etc ... common to the former communist regime (s).
Why don't we give AN ULTIMATUM to MH and his cleaque to go for the good of the Church and our American Orthodoxy?
The priests of the OCA are responsible for the OCA mess. How many OCA priests did post something? ... And WHY so?
Chirst the Lord cannod be betrayed and His BEST GOSPEL cannot be replaced by the best practices. There are so many other Christian denominations on the North American continent watching the entire OCA circus.
.....
Everyone hopes that the upcoming meeting of the OCA Synod and the MC will bring good news for everyone, and some changes should be made. The irresponsible must go as soon as possible. Their place can be taken by suitable people. Most and foremost MH should go first.
Is anyone worry about any priest or hierarch going to jail? There will be no justice served if NONE will go to jail. Christ cannot be betrayed for another 25 - 50 years, and then again "best practices".
Hope to hear the good news by December 18, 2006 about the Syosset changes.
An Orthodox faithful from Diocese of the Midwest.
#19
Anonymous
on
2006-12-02 02:13
His Eminence has already acknowledged his limitations on financial matters. There is no point rehashing what he could have or should have done in the past. As far as what he should be doing now, you seem to have a detailed vision for exactly what he should do next. I am thinking about the big picture -- I am less concerned with the details. Looking at the big picture, His Eminence has done more than any other hierarch to (i) acknowledge there is a problem and discuss the issue honestly and openly, (ii) advocate following the OCA Statute, (iii) question whose interests PR is really representing, (iv) lead his diocese by responding with a conciliar approach, (v) demand that the present situation change and not be swept under the rug, (vi) confess his failure to speak out earlier; and (vii) ask for help on matters when he is in over his head. I think that all of these things show leadership worthy of wide support. You might not think that he has gone far enough, but whether it goes far enough is a different question IMO.
#20
Robert Vasilios Wachter
on
2006-12-02 22:31
Do you actually believe there will be "changes"? Has MH changed anything other than firing the Chancellor and shuffling the remaining players? Has MH so much as said a word to his ravaged flock? What kind of shepherd totally ignores his sheep, leaving them to the wolves?
I don't believe ANYTHING will change.
I don't believe ANYTHING will change.
#21
Name withheld
on
2006-12-03 14:01
Rebecca,
The quote was correct - it is a combination quote from the poem "truth without love is a lie", and Fr. Robert adding "love without truth is hatred." I think it makes all the sense as spoken...
The quote was correct - it is a combination quote from the poem "truth without love is a lie", and Fr. Robert adding "love without truth is hatred." I think it makes all the sense as spoken...
#22
Inga Leonova
on
2006-12-03 20:28
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