Saturday, February 3. 2007
The Commission's Statement
Is the purpose of the Commission merely to accept Proskauer Rose's report; or to continue the investigation to a conclusion?
What do you want to see happen? Your comments welcome.
What do you want to see happen? Your comments welcome.
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Continue the investigation by all means. I believe there is much that still needs to be uncovered.
Melanie Jula Sakoda
Melanie Jula Sakoda
Having read the latest post I have only one reaction: Good luck with the Annual Mission Appeal, Your Beatitude!
Just for once, it would be nice if we could hear the plain truth from our leaders and not have to wait for it to be read in a Federal indictment!
Priest Robert
Just for once, it would be nice if we could hear the plain truth from our leaders and not have to wait for it to be read in a Federal indictment!
Priest Robert
As today is Prodigal Son, I add a question to the OCA administration: Have you come to your "senses" yet to know how far you still are from gaining the trust of the people? Published or written reports galvinize further reflection and correction, to "return to the father's house." That is all there is to it. He embraced his wayward son with open arms. To keep written reports from the faithful keeps the Prodigal down his road of perdition. He had to eat with the pigs. Has the OCA administration not yet reached this point? It has to get worse?
Patty Schellbach
Patty Schellbach
#3
Priest Paul Schellbach
on
2007-02-04 14:51
.
BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN
FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT
The only way this can be fixed is if the Parishioners believe that it is broken.
They will not believe this until the parish priest tells them the “TRUTH”.
Many parish priests will not admit to the parishioners that there is a problem.
They are more concerned about their “JOB” (paycheck) and their “PENSION”!
TEMPORARILY (EVERYONE)!!!
This is the quickest way. Hold in escrow.
“Temporarily” stop “ALL” donations to the OCA, (ESPECIALLY to your local parish!)
This is the only way the PRIEST will get the message, and the people will learn the truth.
Prayer alone is not fixing it. We can’t wait another 15 months.
This is similar to the Global Warming problem.
The people sort of believe it, but it may not be a factor in their life time.
What about our children and grandchildren???
This problem has been going on for about 15 years.
The latest attempt to fix it is taking almost 15 months.
All I see is stalling and excuses.
THE PARISH PRIEST HAS TO TELL THE PARISHIONERS THE TRUTH.
OUR PRIEST DOES NOT!!!
I am not interested in the Metropolitan’s 75th birthday, etc.
Ande
.
BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN
FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT
The only way this can be fixed is if the Parishioners believe that it is broken.
They will not believe this until the parish priest tells them the “TRUTH”.
Many parish priests will not admit to the parishioners that there is a problem.
They are more concerned about their “JOB” (paycheck) and their “PENSION”!
TEMPORARILY (EVERYONE)!!!
This is the quickest way. Hold in escrow.
“Temporarily” stop “ALL” donations to the OCA, (ESPECIALLY to your local parish!)
This is the only way the PRIEST will get the message, and the people will learn the truth.
Prayer alone is not fixing it. We can’t wait another 15 months.
This is similar to the Global Warming problem.
The people sort of believe it, but it may not be a factor in their life time.
What about our children and grandchildren???
This problem has been going on for about 15 years.
The latest attempt to fix it is taking almost 15 months.
All I see is stalling and excuses.
THE PARISH PRIEST HAS TO TELL THE PARISHIONERS THE TRUTH.
OUR PRIEST DOES NOT!!!
I am not interested in the Metropolitan’s 75th birthday, etc.
Ande
.
#4
Ande
on
2007-02-04 15:35
I've never seen a bigger smoke screen. This Met. must go. He has pointed every finger at everyone. This has been become a joke to our religion. The only one that could save us, is the LORD !! I saw the appications at oca.org , how about for metropolitan and the whole staff there. This is with out a doubt worse than when Fr Bob was around. I,m sorry with out a good leader there is no proper direction. God save us all !!
#5
Jon S.
on
2007-02-04 18:18
I thought there was going to be a q & a on the 3rd. What happened to that? Sorry to be Anonymous
#6
withheld
on
2007-02-04 21:33
Dear Mark,
It is about time for me to consider posting someting on this interested site I am reading on a daily basis from its inception. You are doing an outstanding job.
Following the above introduction please accept my friendly question:
Q) Don't you think that ALL the OCA members including the BISHOPS, ARCHBISHOPS and the METROPOLITAN (priests, deacons and laity too) should follow on your footsteps in being honest and speaking truthfully?
A) They should follow on your footsteps, is my answer.
It looks like there are so many standards the OCA hierarchs and some priests are using double standard in interpreting the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The distortion of the correct interpretation in accordance with the Church fathers in done by the hierarchs. Then it is followed by some priests. It is absurd to make your confession of faith in front of the holy altar before being consacrated as a bishop, or being ordained as a priest and THEN to totally disregard it almost for the rest of your life even thought you have been called to minister to the Almighty God.
The current OCA crisis is morally grounded, and it came to our knowledge because of the crying of the people of Breslan and some others to God due to the fact that donations collected on their behalf went astray, and the tapes are still kept secret even by the chairman of the OCA Commission, His Eminence Archbishop Job.
From the very beginning ALL OCA people have been very enthusiastic when +Job was chosen as chairman of the OCA Comission.
Questions:
a) What is he doing now?
b) When he will sent another material to be posted on this site?
c) Why he does not assume much more leadership and ask / interrogate the OCA Metropolitan and other hierarchs, priests and laity about the TRUE ALLEGATIONS?
d) Is +Job afraid to assume the highest responsibility and publically ask for the resignation of MH, because +Job know very well the implication of MH in this scandal, and how taking MH out from his arena, even the investigation can get better results?
e) In +Job not certain that the OCA will be a better place without MH?
Mark,
Comming to your 1st question I would like you to accept my comments:
Q) Is the purpose of the Commission merely to accept Proskauer Rose's report; or to continue the investigation to a conclusion?
Comments:
A) To the best of my knowledge the purpose of the Commission is ONLY to accept the Proskauer Rose's report, but to make sure that the law firm use everything at their disposal and nothing was hiden by the MH or Fr Kondratick.
B) Also the Commission should interrogate everyone under their microscope including the OCA Holy Synod members in regards to the TRUE ALLEGATIONS.
C) The Commission CHAIRMAN (+Job) MUST use the informations from the Moscow VIDEO TAPE while interrogating the MH and other people of interest.
D) All the interrogations must be kept on aidio tapes and then given out to the federal authorities.
E) Those who are refusing cooperation with the Commission should be requested to submit themselves to the federal agencies, before the Commission members will ask for federal indictment.
F) There are no doubts that the OCA hierarchs will not speak honestly and freely and the truth will not come out without the intervention of the federal authorities.
Mark,
Comming to your 2nd question I would like you to accept my comments:
Q) What do you want to see happen?
Comments:
A) I would like to see the OCA Holy Synod members feeling guilty or implicated in this scandal resigning immediately and honestly.
B) I would like to see ALL OCA parishes NOT SENDING any financial contribution to any fund BEFORE the OCA primate MH resignation.
C) I would like to see OCA hierarchs and clergy in good standing asking fermly for the resignation of MH, before the federal indictment, or retire and judged by the OCA Holy Synod for his cover up of the current OCA financial crisis.
D) I would like to see knew faces replacing the actual OCA Holy Synod members, not looking for BIG BUCKS salary, real monks and responsible leaders in front of God and their flock.
E) I would like to see Mark Stokoe congratulated by the OCA Holy Synod for his help in solving out the current crisis and clean up of the OCA.
In Orthodoxy,
Jeremy O'Donnel, 2/ 5/ 2007
Your comments welcome.
It is about time for me to consider posting someting on this interested site I am reading on a daily basis from its inception. You are doing an outstanding job.
Following the above introduction please accept my friendly question:
Q) Don't you think that ALL the OCA members including the BISHOPS, ARCHBISHOPS and the METROPOLITAN (priests, deacons and laity too) should follow on your footsteps in being honest and speaking truthfully?
A) They should follow on your footsteps, is my answer.
It looks like there are so many standards the OCA hierarchs and some priests are using double standard in interpreting the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The distortion of the correct interpretation in accordance with the Church fathers in done by the hierarchs. Then it is followed by some priests. It is absurd to make your confession of faith in front of the holy altar before being consacrated as a bishop, or being ordained as a priest and THEN to totally disregard it almost for the rest of your life even thought you have been called to minister to the Almighty God.
The current OCA crisis is morally grounded, and it came to our knowledge because of the crying of the people of Breslan and some others to God due to the fact that donations collected on their behalf went astray, and the tapes are still kept secret even by the chairman of the OCA Commission, His Eminence Archbishop Job.
From the very beginning ALL OCA people have been very enthusiastic when +Job was chosen as chairman of the OCA Comission.
Questions:
a) What is he doing now?
b) When he will sent another material to be posted on this site?
c) Why he does not assume much more leadership and ask / interrogate the OCA Metropolitan and other hierarchs, priests and laity about the TRUE ALLEGATIONS?
d) Is +Job afraid to assume the highest responsibility and publically ask for the resignation of MH, because +Job know very well the implication of MH in this scandal, and how taking MH out from his arena, even the investigation can get better results?
e) In +Job not certain that the OCA will be a better place without MH?
Mark,
Comming to your 1st question I would like you to accept my comments:
Q) Is the purpose of the Commission merely to accept Proskauer Rose's report; or to continue the investigation to a conclusion?
Comments:
A) To the best of my knowledge the purpose of the Commission is ONLY to accept the Proskauer Rose's report, but to make sure that the law firm use everything at their disposal and nothing was hiden by the MH or Fr Kondratick.
B) Also the Commission should interrogate everyone under their microscope including the OCA Holy Synod members in regards to the TRUE ALLEGATIONS.
C) The Commission CHAIRMAN (+Job) MUST use the informations from the Moscow VIDEO TAPE while interrogating the MH and other people of interest.
D) All the interrogations must be kept on aidio tapes and then given out to the federal authorities.
E) Those who are refusing cooperation with the Commission should be requested to submit themselves to the federal agencies, before the Commission members will ask for federal indictment.
F) There are no doubts that the OCA hierarchs will not speak honestly and freely and the truth will not come out without the intervention of the federal authorities.
Mark,
Comming to your 2nd question I would like you to accept my comments:
Q) What do you want to see happen?
Comments:
A) I would like to see the OCA Holy Synod members feeling guilty or implicated in this scandal resigning immediately and honestly.
B) I would like to see ALL OCA parishes NOT SENDING any financial contribution to any fund BEFORE the OCA primate MH resignation.
C) I would like to see OCA hierarchs and clergy in good standing asking fermly for the resignation of MH, before the federal indictment, or retire and judged by the OCA Holy Synod for his cover up of the current OCA financial crisis.
D) I would like to see knew faces replacing the actual OCA Holy Synod members, not looking for BIG BUCKS salary, real monks and responsible leaders in front of God and their flock.
E) I would like to see Mark Stokoe congratulated by the OCA Holy Synod for his help in solving out the current crisis and clean up of the OCA.
In Orthodoxy,
Jeremy O'Donnel, 2/ 5/ 2007
Your comments welcome.
#7
Jeremy O'Donnel
on
2007-02-05 01:58
Ande,
I understand your frustration.
However, the primary concern of a parish priest is (or at least, should be) the salvation of his parishioners. He must remain faithful, doing everything he can to protect his flock, and nothing to harm them. I don't know who your priest is, but I can imagine that he struggles mightily in his heart and soul, weeping for the crisis we are in, but not wanting to spiritually harm his flock.
That's the position that I find myself in, so I never stand up and discuss this crisis in public. I do sometimes discuss it privately when someone asks, but always with concern for the person and their spiritual condition.
In the love of Christ,
I understand your frustration.
However, the primary concern of a parish priest is (or at least, should be) the salvation of his parishioners. He must remain faithful, doing everything he can to protect his flock, and nothing to harm them. I don't know who your priest is, but I can imagine that he struggles mightily in his heart and soul, weeping for the crisis we are in, but not wanting to spiritually harm his flock.
That's the position that I find myself in, so I never stand up and discuss this crisis in public. I do sometimes discuss it privately when someone asks, but always with concern for the person and their spiritual condition.
In the love of Christ,
#8
A parish priest
on
2007-02-05 09:22
As evidenced by my previous postings I have been a severe critic of central church administration. Lately the number of strident, irrational and illiterate postings has skyrocketed to alarming proportions. A mess that was 15 to 20 years in the making is not going to be resolved in a short 15 months. Someone made an analogy of this crisis to global warming – it’s like an oil tanker, whose brakes when applied at full speed, will continue to coast for several miles before it comes to rest. So, too, the OCA mess. What the OCA needs is critical, but constructive comments that shed light, but little or no heat. Emoting as one man did with a series of loaded questions in the manner of “When did you stop beating your wife?” is not helpful nor mature. We need to exercise some patience and forbearance while pressure is constantly applied (such as this website does). I want this mess to be cleared up now, but knowing the nature of organizations (church, government), quick radical fixes often lead to greater messes.
As for the meeting at St. Mark’s in Bethesda, MD, I hear that en route from New York Metropolitan Herman was in an auto accident and arrived quite late and consequently with few parishioners in attendance. Can anyone confirm?
(editor's note:
The Metropolitan was indeed involved in an accident on his way to the meeting. A message was sent out over the parish email informing people of the accident, and a potential long delay. As a result several people who wished to participate decided not to attend; I have not been given a number for those who did. But here is what one attendee remarked:
"+Herman was difficult to understand, only spoke up when he gave a little sermonette near the end (which might have been good, but seemed somewhat hollow given the lack of heart he expressed during the rest of the session), and both defensive and distancing.
I never expected him to reveal anything or tell us anything we didn't already know. I did however expect him to be pastoral, to be a shepherd. It was sad."
Another wrote:
"About 12 +/- questions & concepts in total, meeting went one hour.
Some questions read from index cards, most questions (all but one, really) from the floor were asked with appropriate respect.
Oh ........ by implication in some of his answers and remarks +MH is 100% familiar with "Accountability" site."
It would be helpful if others who were present could add, confirm, clarify or correct the above impressions with their own.)
As for the meeting at St. Mark’s in Bethesda, MD, I hear that en route from New York Metropolitan Herman was in an auto accident and arrived quite late and consequently with few parishioners in attendance. Can anyone confirm?
(editor's note:
The Metropolitan was indeed involved in an accident on his way to the meeting. A message was sent out over the parish email informing people of the accident, and a potential long delay. As a result several people who wished to participate decided not to attend; I have not been given a number for those who did. But here is what one attendee remarked:
"+Herman was difficult to understand, only spoke up when he gave a little sermonette near the end (which might have been good, but seemed somewhat hollow given the lack of heart he expressed during the rest of the session), and both defensive and distancing.
I never expected him to reveal anything or tell us anything we didn't already know. I did however expect him to be pastoral, to be a shepherd. It was sad."
Another wrote:
"About 12 +/- questions & concepts in total, meeting went one hour.
Some questions read from index cards, most questions (all but one, really) from the floor were asked with appropriate respect.
Oh ........ by implication in some of his answers and remarks +MH is 100% familiar with "Accountability" site."
It would be helpful if others who were present could add, confirm, clarify or correct the above impressions with their own.)
#9
Terry C. Peet
on
2007-02-05 10:40
Mark,
Thanks for pointing out that closure of the P-R investigation (or for that matter any further investigation) does not equal closure of the trust destroying scandal. Only rebuilt trust will bring closure to the scandal and that will take courageous confession and repentance and merciful forgiveness... and time for the wounds to heal.
Thanks for pointing out that closure of the P-R investigation (or for that matter any further investigation) does not equal closure of the trust destroying scandal. Only rebuilt trust will bring closure to the scandal and that will take courageous confession and repentance and merciful forgiveness... and time for the wounds to heal.
#10
Karen Jermyn
on
2007-02-05 10:54
I can understand why the special commission wants their privacy to do their work. This is a big task, and the pressure must be incredible. It would be really nice to get periodic updates like the one posted here detailing what has been done to date, but in the end what I'd like most is the final report of what has happened and what is to be done, and with that (or even before that would be wonderful) some good confession and repentance and forgiveness all around. It is sad to hear that Met. Herman isn't posting these things online. Hopefully this does not indicate a future refusal to continue to co-operate with the commission, but it sounds like even without Met. Herman the commission has a lot of material to work with, and we should still get a lot of answers, if not all of it. I do pray that the commission will bring a conclusion to this matter. Someone has to, and it may as well be them.
Also, thank God Met. Herman survived the accident. Trying to look on the bright side, maybe that was why he seemed distant as accidents are rather nerve-racking? In any case, I may not agree with him as a Metropolitan, but as a person I do not wish him ill. God bless.
Also, thank God Met. Herman survived the accident. Trying to look on the bright side, maybe that was why he seemed distant as accidents are rather nerve-racking? In any case, I may not agree with him as a Metropolitan, but as a person I do not wish him ill. God bless.
#11
Stephen
on
2007-02-05 14:09
I'm just curious if anyone has heard anything about how the search is going for a new Treasurer, Comptroller and Chancellor. Like many things, there always seems to be a small movement forward and then total silence.
#12
Priest Michael
on
2007-02-05 17:31
.
CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT
LET’S DO THE HUMANE THING
Let’s all pull TOGETHER!!!
(At the same time)
We have to send the STRONG message that the peasants will NOT stop until the “TOTAL” truth is told. Is this asking too much?
It is sad if the Metropolitan and/or others are being tormented by us prolonging this. They must be hoping that we will give up and buy their excuses and stalling tactics. Let us shut off the life support system now!!! It could and should have been done months ago.
Ande
.
CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT
LET’S DO THE HUMANE THING
Let’s all pull TOGETHER!!!
(At the same time)
We have to send the STRONG message that the peasants will NOT stop until the “TOTAL” truth is told. Is this asking too much?
It is sad if the Metropolitan and/or others are being tormented by us prolonging this. They must be hoping that we will give up and buy their excuses and stalling tactics. Let us shut off the life support system now!!! It could and should have been done months ago.
Ande
.
#13
Ande
on
2007-02-06 10:09
What people don't understand is that most priest do not know anymore than the lay, so how can he inform the parishioners of his parish. To blame all priest is irresponsible. The great majority of the clergy work hard and do what is required of them.
#14
withheld
on
2007-02-06 12:12
Stop the negativity and soap opera. Let's go to church and move on. People like you should leave the church !!!!!
#15
Anonymous
on
2007-02-09 07:16
No one should leave the church.
No matter what their sin, no matter how others see them, no matter how they see themselves.
The church is a hospital, and we are all sick. We all need to stay and get well.
No one should ever wish someone to leave -- even if they appear to be there for all the wrong reasons (how ever you personally define wrong). None of us are here for good reasons. God uses our human weaknesses in their depressing and inexhaustable variety -- when these bad things become reasons to be in the church, then there is an opportunity for change. We are all redeemable and, in the church, no matter how humanly imperfect it is in any one place or time, God is always at work in inscrutible and often outwardly undescernible ways to bring us closer to Himself.
Rebecca
No matter what their sin, no matter how others see them, no matter how they see themselves.
The church is a hospital, and we are all sick. We all need to stay and get well.
No one should ever wish someone to leave -- even if they appear to be there for all the wrong reasons (how ever you personally define wrong). None of us are here for good reasons. God uses our human weaknesses in their depressing and inexhaustable variety -- when these bad things become reasons to be in the church, then there is an opportunity for change. We are all redeemable and, in the church, no matter how humanly imperfect it is in any one place or time, God is always at work in inscrutible and often outwardly undescernible ways to bring us closer to Himself.
Rebecca
#16
Rebecca Matovic
on
2007-02-09 14:59
This is what I would call a sick,leave me alone statement. Forget about the wrong doing, pray and some SAINT will take carE of it. The OCA is in a dilemma,because of people with the attitude that you show.
I think that there is a program out there that will compile a total nunber of people that have asked for the resignation of the metropolitan and it is less expensive than what we are paying the law firm hired by the metropolitan, and it won't sign itself ANONYMOUS.
Steve Babish
St. James
Kansas City, MO
I think that there is a program out there that will compile a total nunber of people that have asked for the resignation of the metropolitan and it is less expensive than what we are paying the law firm hired by the metropolitan, and it won't sign itself ANONYMOUS.
Steve Babish
St. James
Kansas City, MO
AMEN!
KRT
KRT
#18
Kenneth R. Tobin
on
2007-02-10 09:44
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